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EEStor to Publicly Prove its Technology Imminently « Zenn Motor Company « Financial
 
Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 9:38am #1
Futureman Archive
EErudite
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http://gm-volt.com/2009/07/20/qa-with-ian-cliff...


Assumptions: ee-tom+y_po+zawy=SME's (only dummies assume this)

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 9:42am #2
tonku
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Cool !

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 9:49am #3
manthan33
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omg clock starts now.

if they dont come out within the next 4-6 months my lensman scale will go down to a 1.


EESU, probably, does not exist.

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 9:56am #4
EESlicster
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:)


-EESU is to Li-Ion as SSD is to HDD

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 10:02am #5
manthan33
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Their model which they’ve talked about is they build a relatively small production line which is what is being built now in Austin.

Their model which they’ve talked about is they build a relatively small production line which is what is being built now in Austin.

Their model which they’ve talked about is they build a relatively small production line which is what is being built now in Austin.

Their model which they’ve talked about is they build a relatively small production line which is what is being built now in Austin.

Their model which they’ve talked about is they build a relatively small production line which is what is being built now in Austin.

Their model which they’ve talked about is they build a relatively small production line which is what is being built now in Austin.


EESU, probably, does not exist.

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 10:03am #6
EESlicster
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Manthan, it looks better each one I read!


-EESU is to Li-Ion as SSD is to HDD

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 10:10am #7
rbrohman
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related story:

http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1022286_ceo...

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 10:18am #8
AD2
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Ian Clifford wrote:

"This September EEStor has stated that they will be certifying at-voltage components which actually are build capacitors off their production facility."

Question: So they’re going to actually demonstrate true truly functioning capacitors, not just a powder?

Ian Clifford wrote:

"Exactly. Which has always been their next logical step towards a final commercial product."

End game approaches. And imagine if the following question and answer came from a politician...

Question: Have you actually seen one of the devices functioning?

Ian Clifford wrote:

That gets into the point of non disclosure. Just to be clear, there have not been any production EESUs delivered to us, that’s a very specific milestone, our last milestone is delivery of production equipment.

For that answer, read: Zenn has had functioning devices, but they can't say so. What they can say is that they have not had any of them off the production line yet.

Ian Clifford wrote:

And right now EEStor has indicated a very very short window of delivery and are working towards that aggressively.

End game approaches. Bring it on.


It's time for EEStor to come out of its shell.

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 10:18am #9
manthan33
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great great interview


EESU, probably, does not exist.

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 10:22am #10
AD2
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manthan33 wrote:

great great interview

Most encouraging. I'll have to consider adding another 0.5 to my lensman scale rating.


It's time for EEStor to come out of its shell.

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 10:28am #11
Mite66
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Mine just got up a full point :-)


Lensman scale: 6
(slowly melting)

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 10:43am #12
sauron
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Ok, what's up with all these leaks coming up recently? Maybe it's time to buy some shares?

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 11:01am #13
Y_Po
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one of the comments:

In a related story, the largest team of Sasquatch hunters in the Southeast will soon release photos of the Bigfoot child they captured last year.


Q: What would happen if you give 12V battery and two 6V light bulbs to Weir/Nelson?

A: They will wait 8 years for 12V➜6V DC-DC converter.

http://theeestory.com/topics/3687
http://theeestory.com/topics/2105
http://theeestory.com/topics/4835

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 11:03am #14
Y_Po
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Good one too:

Unicorns of the world be afraid, soon your horns will be harvested for my electric car.

In other news: All other EV programs around the world have been shuttered after being rendered obsolete by this latest press release.


Q: What would happen if you give 12V battery and two 6V light bulbs to Weir/Nelson?

A: They will wait 8 years for 12V➜6V DC-DC converter.

http://theeestory.com/topics/3687
http://theeestory.com/topics/2105
http://theeestory.com/topics/4835

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 11:03am #15
Colbey
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They said "component testing" complete in September already. There was somewhat evasive confirmation that they had only seen the original "components". Of course it's not clear what "exposed to the original technology" means.

Have you actually seen one of the devices functioning?
That gets into the point of non disclosure. Just to be clear, there have not been any production EESUs delivered to us, that’s a very specific milestone, our last milestone is delivery of production equipment. EEStor originally did all of this, their original lab prototyping and everything else a number of years ago. We did our original due diligence back in 2002 and 2003. We were exposed to the original technology then. Right now, we like everyone else are waiting for at voltage components off their production line. And that’s as specific as I will get. And really that’s all that matters.

Still just a lot of rehashing of the same things. I'm glad to see greater confirmation of September, but I didn't see him say anything would be announced then. A good question to ask is when do they expect to make the final milestone payment.

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 11:05am #16
ee-tom
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Did the permittivity milestone increase your confidence in EEStor?
Absolutely. According to EEStor it was really the last scientific hurdle achieved and now they’re just flat out working towards commercial product. Absolutely a very very significant step.

Notice the careful qualification here. Even IC has twigged that the permittivity milestone was not as scientifically compelling as a last milestone before production prototype should be. And no-one else accepts Eestor's rationale - other than a few posters on this site!

As an owner and investor, do you go to EEStor’s facilities and see prototypes?
We are in their facility frequently. We see their progress on a regular basis. We had our own independent third party verification of the permittivity result. We retested all the materials, re-calibrated all the equipment, did a very exhaustive re-verification as it was a significant trigger for us. And a few weeks ago EEStor made the public statement that they anticipate having at-voltage components verified independently by September of this year and deliver of production prototype EESU to us by then end of 2009. That’s directly from EEStor. They made that statement very recently, so it’s very very exciting progress.

Notice that IC sidesteps the question about having seen prototypes, and that the testing they have done is all it low voltage and so (by anyone's judgement - even if you think eestor have the wonder dielectric) does not validate the production of the dielectric.

Their choice of announcing permittivity was entirely up to them so they made the decision when they felt ready to do that.

Obviously - and given it was such a non-milestone clearly driven by need for money.

Is permittivity a value that suggests the material can hold the energy density they claim it can, is that true?
That’s a pretty fair statement. It’s a measurement of capacitance of the material. Once again one of the very significant breakthroughs here is that as a dielectric material there are other materials that have high levels of capacitance but they tend to have very very narrow temperature range, and we had these materials certified from -20 to 65 degrees Celsius. So they’ve created a unique dielectric material and that’s a very very important distinction. It’s a brand new material and it needs to be to meet the energy density and performance characteristics and specifications of their energy storage. They have created a breakthrough unique dielectric material.

We, and any informed expert, know that this is just not true. IC has to believe it, of course. We don't. The most obvious disproof is those commercial IBLC caps that were posted here a while ago...

You talked about at-voltage testing, in vehicle application are you talking about 300 to 400V?
Actually likely higher than that. EEStor stores their energy at around 3500V. We would step that down to operating voltages likely in the 600 V range. Very very high efficiency drive system operating at much higher voltages than any other current EV drive system. That does a number of things. It increases the drive efficiency, it makes the components somewhat smaller, and ultimately less expensive and obviously for mass commercialization that’s a very important consideration.

Notice the conditional tense. Zenn do not even yet know from what voltage they are down-converting.

So the testing you did was at a low voltage?
It’s a standard permittivity capacitance test on a powder in a matrix. It’s not a high voltage test it is a low voltage test, but EEStor achieved many other important milestones over the past 18 months. Especially directed towards a high voltage energy storage device.
If you read our press release related to permittivity, were very very clear on the other key elements of development that EEStor has achieved in order to commercialize a high voltage capacitor with high energy density.

We know which milestones have been acheived. None that show the claimed breakdown, let alone the breakthrough and scientifically unexplainable high saturation. Zenn mentioned production techniques that might increase the beakdown. That is obviously what eestor have been working for, but they have not told anyone whether they have succeeded. Even if they have succeeded with v high btreakdown (which I would not dismiss) there is no indication anywhere that they have conquered saturation. If all is on the level, this issue would be key and IC would deal with it.

Have you actually seen one of the devices functioning?
That gets into the point of non disclosure .... Right now, we like everyone else are waiting for at voltage components off their production line. And that’s as specific as I will get.

He means "no".

Given the (apparent) imminence of working product, the only possible motivation for continued non-disclosure, which has all along been a good motivation, is preventing lack of progress from becoming clear.


Assumptions: 1) E=1/2CV2

(Only dummies assume this)

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 11:08am #17
CpctT@0R
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The usual rehashed non-committal BS from Ian Clifford.

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 11:13am #18
manthan33
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oh come on guys, Ian Clifford gave a clear deadline for eesu, if eestor does clearly verify, then sell sell sell.


EESU, probably, does not exist.

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 11:14am #19
ShortEE
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ee-tom wrote:

Given the (apparent) imminence of working product, the only possible motivation for continued non-disclosure, which has all along been a good motivation, is preventing lack of progress from becoming clear.

Are you sure that's the ONLY possible motivation? The single possible reason? There can be only ONE possible motivation for not going public with everything?

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 11:15am #20
ShortEE
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CpctT@0R wrote:

The usual rehashed non-committal BS from Ian Clifford.

Non-commital? Seriously, aside from presenting a functioning CityZenn or Zennergy, what more do you want in terms of commitment at this point?

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 11:20am #21
jimbobway
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Is 'imminently' even a word IC used? I know what happened last time when he used that word.


Lensman 10/8.6

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 11:22am #22
Robw
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getting real close to put up or shut up time, boys


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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 11:23am #23
jnissen
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oh come on guys, Ian Clifford gave a clear deadline for eesu, if eestor does clearly verify, then sell sell sell.

Is this similar to the earlier quotes where he promises the goods?

As the penguins of Madagascar say:

"Smile and Wave Boys - Smile and wave".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI6DJ0VkBMQ&...

Last edited Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 11:30am by jnissen


Jim

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 11:30am #24
Y_Po
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ShortEE wrote:

ee-tom wrote:

Given the (apparent) imminence of working product, the only possible motivation for continued non-disclosure, which has all along been a good motivation, is preventing lack of progress from becoming clear.

Are you sure that's the ONLY possible motivation? The single possible reason? There can be only ONE possible motivation for not going public with everything?


We know, the other reason would be EEStor/Zenn wants everybody (including competitors) to think that they (EEStor/Zenn) are full of shit.
:)


Q: What would happen if you give 12V battery and two 6V light bulbs to Weir/Nelson?

A: They will wait 8 years for 12V➜6V DC-DC converter.

http://theeestory.com/topics/3687
http://theeestory.com/topics/2105
http://theeestory.com/topics/4835

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 11:31am #25
int16
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nothing new here.
"it's coming" is the bottom line of the interview

just like every interview Weir has given in the last 2 years

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 11:39am #26
MrLouMrLou
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I'm pretty optimistic here. It's pretty bold to clarify EEStor's statement that there will be third party verification of components, being tested at voltage, so near in the future. Especially after so many false deadlines. They have got to be pretty sure this time. I can't imagine them blowing off another deadline. If they do, I'll be down to a 1 myself. Anyways, we'll know in 2 months! :)

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 11:39am #27
bitslider
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Was there another interview where the location and status of the production line was indicated, as well as a promise of "weeks" for EESU demonstration?


Self-proclaimed Crackpot Believer! My Cheerios made me do it!
"I are brain in the glass"
Fighting for Truth on the Internet, one slap-fight at a time!

2 on the Bit Scale

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 11:41am #28
jam
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Who is I?

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 11:47am #29
e'er
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I love how some of the skeptics get more and more frantic the closer that EEStor gets.


You tell me.

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Mon, 20 Jul 2009, 11:50am #30
Tombeme
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One of the comments:

Michael D Says:
July 20th, 2009 at 7:52 am
I want to use this technology in my notebooks. We are looking for 72 hour battery life. This looks like a winner.

I don't know if this is really Mr. Dell commenting on the article? If it is it could be hint.

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