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Light Electric Vehicles - Form D « Light Electric Vehicles Company « Financial
 
Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 8:59am #1
garyb
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I didn't see this in the files section yet, so uploaded for reference.

http://theeestory.com/files/Light_Electric_Vehi...

Edit:
I thought most people here were already familiar with the LightEvs connection so I didn't include any background info.
Light Electric Vehicles website: http://www.lightevs.com/

b's interview with Carl Watkins.

Part1:
http://bariumtitanate.blogspot.com/2008/10/eest...

Pat2:
http://bariumtitanate.blogspot.com/2008/11/part...

Last edited Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 12:01pm by garyb


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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 9:05am #2
broschultz
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It's hard to believe that DW couldn't find a better company to sell an e esu to. There has to be more to the story, one way or the other.

Last edited Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 3:20pm by broschultz

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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 9:14am #3
Lensman
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LightEVs was/is a brand new company created for the specific purpose of licensing EEStor tech. NNNN, nothing to see here, move along, go about your business.


We are the 99%. A better world is possible.

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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 9:20am #4
hoarybat
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Well if it was just created, from whom did the infusion of cash come from to assist EEstor in their final milestone?


Lensman Scale: 2 taking too long based on earlier promise/claims.

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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 9:54am #5
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ZMC... for anyone living in a cave or visiting the back side of the moon these past several weeks.


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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 10:10am #6
nekote
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broschultz wrote:

Idt's hard to believe that DW couldn't find a better company to sell an e esu to. There has to be more to the story, one way or the other.

DW audio wrote:

I've also got a contract with a two wheel three wheel company. Uhh, they say ... I told when they fully started that, you know, you guys got a $20B company and they said, they thought I was really humourous. When they got the start they said Dick you're missing. It's more like a $40B market. You take that electric ... that 2 wheel scooter and bicycle, worldwide, you can't make enough of them.

Portable tools. I've ...

I: I mean ... for ... it could take a little while to develop? Or take some time?

W: ... nice thing about the electric ... the reason I really worked hard to get that done. I know the guy there very well. Is that time to market is short there. You don't have crash tests. And our battery will be UL approved. Which is more than enough to put it on an electric bike, worldwide. You put the bike ... you put the motor on the bike, you put the battery on the bike and you sell it. So, it is quick to market.
Not much else to say, if DW is buds with "the guy there". :)


Go DW Go - *economical* mass production

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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 10:43am #7
eestatic
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How many electric bikes in China?


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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 11:04am #8
wynja
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sales in China yr 2000 = 200,000
22,000,000 built in 2008

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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 11:08am #9
Fibb
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@eestatic. I think someone said there are currently 100 million ebikes in China.


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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 11:35am #10
hoarybat
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Lensman wrote:

ZMC... for anyone living in a cave or visiting the back side of the moon these past several weeks.

Nice insult Lens or you misunderstood what I was trying to convey. We all know about the $$ from ZMC. I thought Light also gave $$ to EEstor assisting them. If they did who owns Light EV? If they didn't I understand the sole purpose situation.

Last edited Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 11:43am by hoarybat


Lensman Scale: 2 taking too long based on earlier promise/claims.

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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 11:38am #11
Generic
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The lightev folks had a prior company if i remember correctly. They know the industry and had money to invest.


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Why monocles? Why not.

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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 11:42am #12
hoarybat
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Ok that's what I was curious about the "prior company".

thanks generic


Lensman Scale: 2 taking too long based on earlier promise/claims.

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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 11:52am #13
Generic
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If your curious, look back at Sept & Oct of 2008 on B's blog (the older one).

http://www.theeestory.com/articles/70

My memory is no match for actual archives. ;)


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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 12:03pm #14
garyb
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I updated my original post to include some background info


Always listen to experts, They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.
---Robert Heinlein---

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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 12:07pm #15
hoarybat
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Awesome Generic thanks!


Lensman Scale: 2 taking too long based on earlier promise/claims.

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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 1:00pm #16
evnow
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broschultz wrote:

Idt's hard to believe that DW couldn't find a better company to sell an e esu to. There has to be more to the story, one way or the other.

I think nobody beleives EEStor - and large companies won't even talk if you don't go and show them a prototype. That leaves only small companies like Zenn ....

BTW, you should reduce the size of your avatar. Now all your comments come in 5 char. width column at the extreme right.


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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 1:24pm #17
eeinterested
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This deal is very similar to the ZMC deal in that it is a small company that will essentially broker the technology to the bicycle manufacturers. North American, home grown, decisionmakers who share a vision, available by phone.

It makes sense to go with these small companies for a number of reasons.

They exist solely to market the EEStor product. Some here see this as a weakness; it is a strength. EEStor does not need huge cash infusions from large players, they need to penetrate markets. Their customers need to see the benifits, and fear the consequences of not adopting their technology. Cash will be plentiful when sales begin.

"Better" companies? You mean big, and with lots of existing sales? I think the EESU throws a grenade into old product lines, relationships, and designs. Newcomers like LEV and ZMC have no old stuff to protect. They are going to shake things up.

Faster, more nimble, and untethered to "the way we've always done it" beats, big, unresponsive "show me a prototype" companies when you are in this stage.

Dich Weir is older, and unimpressed with large bureaucratic organizations that were unresponsive when he needed early support, coupled with secrecy. The only big one in the mix is Lockheed Martin; defense is a different animal, and LM makes sense in this space.

You don't change the world into DW's vision by starting with GM, Toyota, or some Chinese bicycle manufacturer or parts maker.

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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 1:31pm #18
Generic
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Also; It doesn't hurt that they provided money without demanding ownership! =D


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Why monocles? Why not.

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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 1:46pm #19
evnow
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It is also possible that if EESU is for real, and EEStor wants to get into the bigger game, they can easily buy Zenn and other smaller partners.


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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 2:20pm #20
Bill300
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I think most of you guys have no idea how smart DW is on the business side. He has been down the road with VC's a couple of times and he knows how the hardball game is played.

If he were to do business directly with GE, for example, he would be subjecting EESTOR to the inevitable lawsuits as they would seek to steal the rights and /or technology with their army of lawyers. It happans all the time. Never cozy up to the big boys.

The LM relationship keeps him insulated from the government for starters. Although LM is a big player, I would fear government more, especially now. He has to have an intermediary with the DoD. Notice that he took no investment dollars from LM.

Dick obviously wants small players as licensees\distributors. They do not have the lawyers and political influence that could crush EESTOR. The patent infringment lawsuits will come flying out. GE, DuPont,who will be first? VC patent trolls? You betcha! They would love to settle for a license to manufacture with a minimum royalty.

So, who would be better than Light EV's, or Zenn for that matter? The Chinese, since they make all the bikes? Yeah, right. Sell nothing to the Chinese or the Indians. They will be nothing but trouble. If DW ever lets a production line to be setup over there, he will have cut years off of his lead. There is billions of $$$ of business right here for the forseeable future and we are in bad need of it now. Manufacture here, not anywhere else.

When Dick said "All hell will break loose", he wasn't kidding.

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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 6:48pm #21
Daniel R Plante
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Bill300 wrote:

I think most of you guys have no idea how smart DW is on the business side. He has been down the road with VC's a couple of times and he knows how the hardball game is played.

If he were to do business directly with GE, for example, he would be subjecting EESTOR to the inevitable lawsuits as they would seek to steal the rights and /or technology with their army of lawyers. It happans all the time. Never cozy up to the big boys.

The LM relationship keeps him insulated from the government for starters. Although LM is a big player, I would fear government more, especially now. He has to have an intermediary with the DoD. Notice that he took no investment dollars from LM.

Dick obviously wants small players as licensees\distributors. They do not have the lawyers and political influence that could crush EESTOR. The patent infringment lawsuits will come flying out. GE, DuPont,who will be first? VC patent trolls? You betcha! They would love to settle for a license to manufacture with a minimum royalty.

So, who would be better than Light EV's, or Zenn for that matter? The Chinese, since they make all the bikes? Yeah, right. Sell nothing to the Chinese or the Indians. They will be nothing but trouble. If DW ever lets a production line to be setup over there, he will have cut years off of his lead. There is billions of $$$ of business right here for the forseeable future and we are in bad need of it now. Manufacture here, not anywhere else.

When Dick said "All hell will break loose", he wasn't kidding.


Bill, I agree. The business sense betrayed by many posts on this blog seem hopelessly naive. It's rather obvious that Dick et al have been around the block.

One more point: LM is an entity with huge global resources and financial/government influence. If you make what is already a sweetheart deal with them, you get 2 things: 1) You remove the incentive for them to screw you over, and 2) you tie their fortunes to yours - anyone who tries to screw with EEStor will be indirectly screwing with LM and their sweet lisencing stake with EEStor. Even if I was GE, Toyota or DuPont, I'd think long and hard about that. Very shrewd move by EEStor.


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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 7:11pm #22
broschultz
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Before Light EV, Carl Watkins was president of the Neighborhood Vehicle Co. which made the Gizmo. It looks like a 3 wheeled golf cart. No longer in production. Waiting on the eesu I guess.

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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 7:44pm #23
evnow
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Bill300 wrote:

If he were to do business directly with GE, for example, he would be subjecting EESTOR to the inevitable lawsuits as they would seek to steal the rights and /or technology with their army of lawyers. It happans all the time. Never cozy up to the big boys.

See Mike Bergeron's interview. Mike used to work for Chrysler.

http://theeestory.com/topics/2056

I think DW was trying to sell to anyone he could. See the above interview - he was trying to sell the idea to Chrysler. It never went anywhere.

Making A Virtue Of Necessity ?


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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 8:40pm #24
eeinterested
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That was early in the game. He was green; did not know that Chrysler would never fund an early stage company without a working prototype. Not a judgement on either Chrysler or DW. It is their business model. DW moved on to the appropriate entities: KP, Ian Clifford, and LM. Very different from the big three, or GE.

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Sun, 02 Aug 2009, 9:35pm #25
hoarybat
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Bill300 wrote:

I think most of you guys have no idea how smart DW is on the business side. He has been down the road with VC's a couple of times and he knows how the hardball game is played.

If he were to do business directly with GE, for example, he would be subjecting EESTOR to the inevitable lawsuits as they would seek to steal the rights and /or technology with their army of lawyers. It happans all the time. Never cozy up to the big boys.

The LM relationship keeps him insulated from the government for starters. Although LM is a big player, I would fear government more, especially now. He has to have an intermediary with the DoD. Notice that he took no investment dollars from LM.

Dick obviously wants small players as licensees\distributors. They do not have the lawyers and political influence that could crush EESTOR. The patent infringment lawsuits will come flying out. GE, DuPont,who will be first? VC patent trolls? You betcha! They would love to settle for a license to manufacture with a minimum royalty.

So, who would be better than Light EV's, or Zenn for that matter? The Chinese, since they make all the bikes? Yeah, right. Sell nothing to the Chinese or the Indians. They will be nothing but trouble. If DW ever lets a production line to be setup over there, he will have cut years off of his lead. There is billions of $$$ of business right here for the forseeable future and we are in bad need of it now. Manufacture here, not anywhere else.

When Dick said "All hell will break loose", he wasn't kidding.

Bill one can only hope that it all pans out how you wish it to be. I feel this approach would be beneficial to our economy too! First things first, a real EESU...


Lensman Scale: 2 taking too long based on earlier promise/claims.

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Mon, 03 Aug 2009, 4:22am #26
seslaprime
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Bill300 wrote:

I think most of you guys have no idea how smart DW is on the business side. He has been down the road with VC's a couple of times and he knows how the hardball game is played.

If he were to do business directly with GE, for example, he would be subjecting EESTOR to the inevitable lawsuits as they would seek to steal the rights and /or technology with their army of lawyers. It happans all the time. Never cozy up to the big boys.

The LM relationship keeps him insulated from the government for starters. Although LM is a big player, I would fear government more, especially now. He has to have an intermediary with the DoD. Notice that he took no investment dollars from LM.

Dick obviously wants small players as licensees\distributors. They do not have the lawyers and political influence that could crush EESTOR. The patent infringment lawsuits will come flying out. GE, DuPont,who will be first? VC patent trolls? You betcha! They would love to settle for a license to manufacture with a minimum royalty.

So, who would be better than Light EV's, or Zenn for that matter? The Chinese, since they make all the bikes? Yeah, right. Sell nothing to the Chinese or the Indians. They will be nothing but trouble. If DW ever lets a production line to be setup over there, he will have cut years off of his lead. There is billions of $$$ of business right here for the forseeable future and we are in bad need of it now. Manufacture here, not anywhere else.

When Dick said "All hell will break loose", he wasn't kidding.

Bill300, this is a great comment. I could not have said it better myself. this is the kind of line I have took since the beginning. I also stated back in 08 that DW and CN are the leading experts worldwide in BT dielectrics. If/When this EESU is finally verified, this will certainly ring true.

I think in a business sense, DW has juked everyone in the industry.

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Mon, 03 Aug 2009, 5:49am #27
EEcosse
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hoarybat wrote:

Bill300 wrote:

I think most of you guys have no idea how smart DW is on the business side. He has been down the road with VC's a couple of times and he knows how the hardball game is played.

If he were to do business directly with GE, for example, he would be subjecting EESTOR to the inevitable lawsuits as they would seek to steal the rights and /or technology with their army of lawyers. It happans all the time. Never cozy up to the big boys.

The LM relationship keeps him insulated from the government for starters. Although LM is a big player, I would fear government more, especially now. He has to have an intermediary with the DoD. Notice that he took no investment dollars from LM.

Dick obviously wants small players as licensees\distributors. They do not have the lawyers and political influence that could crush EESTOR. The patent infringment lawsuits will come flying out. GE, DuPont,who will be first? VC patent trolls? You betcha! They would love to settle for a license to manufacture with a minimum royalty.

So, who would be better than Light EV's, or Zenn for that matter? The Chinese, since they make all the bikes? Yeah, right. Sell nothing to the Chinese or the Indians. They will be nothing but trouble. If DW ever lets a production line to be setup over there, he will have cut years off of his lead. There is billions of $$$ of business right here for the forseeable future and we are in bad need of it now. Manufacture here, not anywhere else.

When Dick said "All hell will break loose", he wasn't kidding.

Bill one can only hope that it all pans out how you wish it to be. I feel this approach would be beneficial to our economy too! First things first, a real EESU...

Hoarybat, your strapline. Up 1 since both interviews? I know of the 'ONE' with DW and the investor. What is the other one?


10!

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