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EESTOR was issued new patent US7,595,109 (9-29-09)! « Patents « Technology
 
Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 5:05am #1
NewScience
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http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat7595109.pdf

Compared with the 2 previously issued US patents, the main claims are very broad! this patent is a lot more valuable to EESTOR!

1st Main claim: "1. An article of manufacture comprising: first and second electrodes; and a dielectric layer located between the first and second electrodes, the dielectric layer including high-permittivity ceramic powder particles coated with a first layer of high dielectric breakdown material and isostatically pressed together, wherein the first layer of high dielectric breakdown material comprises material different from the high-permittivity ceramic powder particles, wherein the high-permittivity ceramic powder particles comprise composition-modified barium titanate, wherein the first layer of high dielectric breakdown material comprises alumina."

2nd main claim: "15. A capacitor comprising: first and second electrodes; and a dielectric layer located between the first and second electrodes, the dielectric layer including high-permittivity ceramic powder particles coated with a first layer of high dielectric breakdown material and isostatically pressed together, wherein the first layer of high dielectric breakdown material comprises material different from the high-permittivity ceramic powder particles, wherein the high-permittivity ceramic powder particles comprise composition-modified barium titanate, wherein the first layer of high dielectric breakdown material comprises alumina."

Last edited Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 10:42am by NewScience


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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 5:35am #2
ee-tom
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This patent (already discussed I think) encapsulates the core of the mystery:

Weird patent wrote:

Assumptions:

The relative permittivity of the high-permittivity powder is nominally 33,500, as given in the reference: P. Hansen, U.S. Pat. No. 6,078,494, issued Jan. 20, 2000.

The 100 .ANG. coating of Al.sub.2O.sub.3 and 100 .ANG. of calcium magnesium aluminosilicate glass will reduce the relative permittivity by 12%. K=29,480

Energy stored by a capacitor: E=CV.sup.2/(2.times.3600 s/h)=Wh C=capacitance in farads V=voltage across the terminals of the capacitor.

And, shortly after...

From the above description, it will be apparent that the invention disclosed herein provides a novel and advantageous electrical-energy-storage unit composed of unique materials and processes.

Given that the assumption on which all rests is nowhere justified by the patent, and considered "by those skilled in the art" to be untrue, it is not apparent!

But what do I know? DanielAP will say (and I defer to his judgement) that the technical merit of this patent is irrelevant...

Best wishes, Tom


Assumptions: 1) E=1/2CV2

(Only dummies assume this)

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 5:40am #3
Y_Po
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He writes patents at night :)


Q: What would happen if you give 12V battery and two 6V light bulbs to Weir/Nelson?

A: They will wait 8 years for 12V➜6V DC-DC converter.

http://theeestory.com/topics/3687
http://theeestory.com/topics/2105
http://theeestory.com/topics/4835

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 5:44am #4
Y_Po
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Do you guys (believers) realize that if Weir is right then Hansen is a moron?

He had it in 2000 but for some reasons decided not to patent it.

BTW, what is exactly new in this patent?


Q: What would happen if you give 12V battery and two 6V light bulbs to Weir/Nelson?

A: They will wait 8 years for 12V➜6V DC-DC converter.

http://theeestory.com/topics/3687
http://theeestory.com/topics/2105
http://theeestory.com/topics/4835

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 5:51am #5
ee-tom
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Not new exactly, since used by others, but different from Hansen.

The alumina & glass coating.

Best wishes, Tom


Assumptions: 1) E=1/2CV2

(Only dummies assume this)

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 5:54am #6
Y_Po
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ee-tom wrote:

Not new exactly, since used by others, but different from Hansen.

The alumina & glass coating.

Best wishes, Tom

I meant new compared to previous Weird patents.
:)


Q: What would happen if you give 12V battery and two 6V light bulbs to Weir/Nelson?

A: They will wait 8 years for 12V➜6V DC-DC converter.

http://theeestory.com/topics/3687
http://theeestory.com/topics/2105
http://theeestory.com/topics/4835

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 6:01am #7
ee-tom
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Y_Po wrote:

ee-tom wrote:

Not new exactly, since used by others, but different from Hansen.

The alumina & glass coating.

Best wishes, Tom

I meant new compared to previous Weird patents.
:)

The "secret sauce" is plainly revealed here, as before. It is the clever assumption. No new. :)


Assumptions: 1) E=1/2CV2

(Only dummies assume this)

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 6:52am #8
devotEE
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Interesting to me at least that the first to post are eeTom and Y_Po. How does that poem go? "Not with a bang, but a wimper."

This is yet another nail in the coffin of denial.


"We're living in a wiggly world."

"11% of any quantity = a shit ton"

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 6:56am #9
Tec
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Its not a bang OR a wimper. I think you'll find its a whimper.

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 7:11am #10
Y_Po
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devotEE wrote:

Interesting to me at least that the first to post are eeTom and Y_Po. How does that poem go? "Not with a bang, but a wimper."

This is yet another nail in the coffin of denial.

I know, believers are in the coffin of denial and we just put another nail in it.


Q: What would happen if you give 12V battery and two 6V light bulbs to Weir/Nelson?

A: They will wait 8 years for 12V➜6V DC-DC converter.

http://theeestory.com/topics/3687
http://theeestory.com/topics/2105
http://theeestory.com/topics/4835

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 7:22am #11
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Y_PO quoted out of context: "Weir is right"

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 7:57am #12
eestorblog
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Did this patent really issue? I still only see 2 patents for EEStor which would make it:

EEStor 2
Y_Po 0


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http://theeestory.com/topics/1949

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 8:00am #13
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Most of the questions asked above have been already answered in the following thread:

http://theeestory.com/topics/3202?page=2#p60966

The patent claims in U.S. Patent No. 7,595,109 are very good claims for Eestor, especially if you believe that coating the CMBT with alumina is important for the energy storage properties they are reporting. There is nothing controversial here IP-wise.

If you want to consider a story that is not so straightforward, check out the intellectual property situation that A123 has found itself in.


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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 8:07am #14
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eestorblog wrote:

Did this patent really issue? I still only see 2 patents for EEStor which would make it:

EEStor 2
Y_Po 0

http://www.theeestory.com/files/USPTO_EEStor_Patents_2009-09-29.jpg


contact: tvillars -at- gmail dot com

Past Predictions 1 - 4, 6

Current Predictions

5) component to have specific energy between 550 to 650 Wh/kg

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 8:17am #15
Y_Po
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tvillars
Can you find out how many patents Rolf has?


Q: What would happen if you give 12V battery and two 6V light bulbs to Weir/Nelson?

A: They will wait 8 years for 12V➜6V DC-DC converter.

http://theeestory.com/topics/3687
http://theeestory.com/topics/2105
http://theeestory.com/topics/4835

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 8:23am #16
ee-tom
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danielapearson wrote:

Most of the questions asked above have been already answered in the following thread:

http://theeestory.com/topics/3202?page=2#p60966

The patent claims in U.S. Patent No. 7,595,109 are very good claims for Eestor, especially if you believe that coating the CMBT with alumina is important for the energy storage properties they are reporting. There is nothing controversial here IP-wise.

If you want to consider a story that is not so straightforward, check out the intellectual property situation that A123 has found itself in.

Daniel - I don't question that. However the "energy-storage properties they are reporting" are NOT what Eestor need for the EESU. In fact no advance in energy storage can be determined from this patent - the E = 1/2CV^2 assumption is known to be untrue.

That is a serious gap, not for the IP, but because the patents are the only information we have about eestor's invention.

Best wishes, Tom


Assumptions: 1) E=1/2CV2

(Only dummies assume this)

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 8:27am #17
tvillars
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Y_Po wrote:

tvillars
Can you find out how many patents Rolf has?

Rolf Eisenring currently has 0 patents and 3 patent applications one of which is a divisional application.


contact: tvillars -at- gmail dot com

Past Predictions 1 - 4, 6

Current Predictions

5) component to have specific energy between 550 to 650 Wh/kg

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 8:30am #18
Y_Po
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tvillars wrote:

Y_Po wrote:

tvillars
Can you find out how many patents Rolf has?

Rolf Eisenring currently has 0 patents and 3 patent applications one of which is a divisional application.


I thought he had WIPO patent

Last edited Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 8:37am by Y_Po


Q: What would happen if you give 12V battery and two 6V light bulbs to Weir/Nelson?

A: They will wait 8 years for 12V➜6V DC-DC converter.

http://theeestory.com/topics/3687
http://theeestory.com/topics/2105
http://theeestory.com/topics/4835

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 8:46am #19
tvillars
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Y_Po wrote:

tvillars wrote:

Y_Po wrote:

tvillars
Can you find out how many patents Rolf has?

Rolf Eisenring currently has 0 patents and 3 patent applications one of which is a divisional application.


I thought he had WIPO patent

My understanding is the WIPO doesn't approve patents but is merely a data repository for cross referencing patents from gov't agencies that do issue patents and handle enforcement. Rolf has 2 listings on the WIPO.


contact: tvillars -at- gmail dot com

Past Predictions 1 - 4, 6

Current Predictions

5) component to have specific energy between 550 to 650 Wh/kg

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 8:51am #20
Y_Po
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tvillars wrote:

Y_Po wrote:

tvillars wrote:

Y_Po wrote:

tvillars
Can you find out how many patents Rolf has?

Rolf Eisenring currently has 0 patents and 3 patent applications one of which is a divisional application.


I thought he had WIPO patent

My understanding is the WIPO doesn't approve patents but is merely a data repository for cross referencing patents from gov't agencies that do issue patents and handle enforcement. Rolf has 2 listings on the WIPO.

That at least must mean that he has 2 patents somewhere.

Therefore:
Number of stupid patents:
1. EEStor 3
2. Rolf 2
3. Y_Po 0


Q: What would happen if you give 12V battery and two 6V light bulbs to Weir/Nelson?

A: They will wait 8 years for 12V➜6V DC-DC converter.

http://theeestory.com/topics/3687
http://theeestory.com/topics/2105
http://theeestory.com/topics/4835

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 9:04am #21
eestorblog
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Y_Po wrote:

tvillars wrote:

Y_Po wrote:

tvillars wrote:

Y_Po wrote:

tvillars
Can you find out how many patents Rolf has?

Rolf Eisenring currently has 0 patents and 3 patent applications one of which is a divisional application.


I thought he had WIPO patent

My understanding is the WIPO doesn't approve patents but is merely a data repository for cross referencing patents from gov't agencies that do issue patents and handle enforcement. Rolf has 2 listings on the WIPO.

That at least must mean that he has 2 patents somewhere.

Therefore:
Number of stupid patents:
1. EEStor 3
2. Rolf 2
3. Y_Po 0

For more illustrative comparison purposes, a system could be devised which awards a point for either a patent or a job. The count might look like this:

EEStor 25
Rolf 3
Y_Po 0

:-)


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http://theeestory.com/topics/1949

I believe in miracles and UFO's.

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 9:05am #22
hyperborealis
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Y_Po wrote:


That at least must mean that he has 2 patents somewhere.

Therefore:
Number of stupid patents:
1. EEStor 3
2. Rolf 2
3. Y_Po 0

Does that mean you're not stupid enough? :)

David Joslin


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Eestor / Zenn -- not a product or an event, but a way of life.

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 9:10am #23
trick
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tvillars wrote:

Y_Po wrote:

tvillars
Can you find out how many patents Rolf has?

Rolf Eisenring currently has 0 patents and 3 patent applications one of which is a divisional application.

What about James Dyson? He must write patents at night too.

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 10:47am #24
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Congratulations EEStor!
Another *PATENT* in hand!

Only ~15? more to go.


Go DW Go - *economical* mass production

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 10:58am #25
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ee-tom wrote:

...the E = 1/2CV^2 assumption is known to be untrue....

i've seen this in your sig for a while but i haven't seen where/how the formula was proven untrue.

i always figured your problem with the formula was that C reduced with increasing V. not that the formula ITSELF was wrong.

capacitance (C) is defined by the the charge (Q) divided by the voltage (V). 1 farad = 1 coulomb/1 volt.

E = 1/2CV^2 is derived as an Integral of the work done to charge the capacitor.

what is it that you are saying is untrue? the definition, the calculus or the way people use the formula?

Last edited Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 11:04am by LXicon

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 11:07am #26
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For one thing, you can't just keep increasing voltage forever...


Lensman scale: Lets say, 42.
No, really, I have no idea, 4-5.
I'll believe when I see it.

"I don't lack attention span, I just lack a tuning device."

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 11:08am #27
EEventually
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2320 components per 52kWh. Now were talking!


“Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled.”- Michael Crichton

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 11:13am #28
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Anyone care to comment on the reduced voltage breakdown? Instead of the minimum 500 V/um, this patent claims breakdown voltage from 100 V/um to 500 V/um. So even if the material were to work as they claim and not saturate, the energy density could be as low as 8% of the 52 kWh number assuming 1/2CV2. Unless we now assume capacitance increases with voltage.

LXicon wrote:

what is it that you are saying is untrue? the definition, the calculus or the way people use the formula?

The way Weir is using it, not "people".


41 Rating - CAUTION - Abusive Poster

29,209,543,309x EESU Now Possible! (Rounded for Simplicity)

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 11:19am #29
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LXicon wrote:

ee-tom wrote:

...the E = 1/2CV^2 assumption is known to be untrue....

i've seen this in your sig for a while but i haven't seen where/how the formula was proven untrue.

i always figured your problem with the formula was that C reduced with increasing V. not that the formula ITSELF was wrong.

capacitance (C) is defined by the the charge (Q) divided by the voltage (V). 1 farad = 1 coulomb/1 volt.

E = 1/2CV^2 is derived as an Integral of the work done to charge the capacitor.

what is it that you are saying is untrue? the definition, the calculus or the way people use the formula?

The assumption that C is constant independent of V is untrue. While I agree the euqation could be Ok if you make C a variable, in the context that it is used in the patent (from which I quote) it is generally accepted as untrue. The patent assumes C is constant.


Assumptions: 1) E=1/2CV2

(Only dummies assume this)

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Tue, 29 Sep 2009, 11:30am #30
nekote
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EEventually wrote:

2320 components per 52kWh. Now were talking!
Remember, this PATENT is referring to the so called nickel / glass patent.

Thus the 2320 components of that "embodiment".

NOT the case, with the Aluminum / PET patent.
31,351 components, in that case.


Go DW Go - *economical* mass production

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