TheEEStory.com

Press release from LM today on their new utility-scale command-and-control software suite. Most interesting detail: "Lockheed's 'SEEsuite' -- Smart Energy Enterprise suite -- helps customers dynamically manage load during times of grid stress or volatile market prices, integrate and balance load from distributed energy resources, increase situational awareness for advanced decision making, and deploy and manage 'microgrids' – portions of the electric grid able to operate independently of the overall grid." Microgrids required storage.

Link to complete p.r.:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Lockheed-Martin-L...

Some more EESU "dots" for us all to connect together.

SEEsuite <-> sEESUite ?

Can that be a coincidence?

Last edited Mon, 25 Jan 2010, 4:24pm by StephenB

Smart and sweet (suite) just as I like them.

Well that definitely sounds like it could be a big dot in our connect the dot endeavours.

This is a dead ringer for the grid leveling stuff DW has talked about.

An as yet unannounced deal between EEStor and LM?

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/products/energy-s...

Not a lot of info.

SEEview™ enables enterprise-wide situational awareness by providing decision makers with a real-time, integrated view of all key business and operational systems. SEEview integrates legacy and web applications, as well as internal and external data sources, to provide the cross-enterprise insight and perspective necessary to manage increasingly complex Smart Grid businesses. SEEview’s secure integration of operational and business systems allows utilities to respond quickly to rising wholesale market prices, variable renewable energy sources, and energy storage availability.

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/capabilities/energy/

Energy Management and Storage: In the near future, a new mix of traditional and alternatives energies will need to be smartly and securely stored, managed and distributed to consumers. Lockheed Martin teams are leveraging command-and-control, systems integration, and cyber security expertise to make that vision a reality.

Last edited Mon, 25 Jan 2010, 4:46pm by eestorblog

The timing of this sEESuite PR from LM.... does anybody think this means a EEStor reveal is now that much closer? i.e. Is this predictive of the timing for EEStor?

@Fibb222: yes, absolutely.

Energy storage can mean batteries but not necessarily. It also can mean the water behind a hydroelectric dam that can be used when needed. It can also mean natural gas underground storage and pipeline pack that can be accessed for ramping up power plants.

Since there are currently no power levelling batteries on the North American grid, I think this software is geared to traditional energy storage. (Yes, I know about the 1 MW battery storage demonstration facility at a wind farm).

For clarity, UPS and grid stabilization capacitors are not energy storage systems that are managed by this system. Both of those are for emergency and upset conditions only.

Last edited Mon, 25 Jan 2010, 5:01pm by Oakthicket

Yes, but that wouldn't make a sEESUite.

Oakthicket wrote:

Energy storage can mean batteries but not necessarily. It also can mean the water behind a hydroelectric dam that can be used when needed. It can also mean natural gas underground storage and pipeline pack that can be accessed for ramping up power plants.

Since there are currently no power levelling batteries on the North American grid, I think this software is geared to traditional energy storage. (Yes, I know about the 1 MW battery storage demonstration facility at a wind farm).

For clarity, UPS and grid stabilization capacitors are not energy storage systems that are managed by this system. Both of those are for emergency and upset conditions only.

Sorry Oakthicket, with the notable exception of batteries (and EESUs), none of the storage options you mention really have anything to do with micro-grids. EPRI did a pretty detailed webcast last summer on what they call Community Energy Storage, which describes what Lockheed is talking about in their p.r. today, at least in my opinion.

Here's link to the CES webcast slides: http://69.12.216.159/files/EPRI_StandardizingCE...

But it was a significant smile.

Hello Hammer

That's a cool presentation. They've made some progress but it's mostly a vision for the future. The EPRI slides show installed battery storage totalling only 9 MW in micro-grids assuming the 2009 plan was executed on schedule. That's small potatoes, but the future potential looks bright.

Unless I'm mistaken, the Lockheed software is available now for use. While micro-grids using battery storage is a thing for the future, I believe the SEEsuite currently targets more traditional electricty management. The battery storage microgrid market is far too small at the moment.

There are existing microgrids that could benefit from such a system. Universities, hospitals and other services frequently have their own microgrids. Isolated communities not connected to a major grid could also benefit.

StephenB wrote:

Yes, but that wouldn't make a sEESUite.

Oh Sh!t, I can't believe I missed it. EESU is part of the word! Coincidence? Doubtful. Here we go kids!

Fibb222 wrote:

StephenB wrote:

Yes, but that wouldn't make a sEESUite.

Oh Sh!t, I can't believe I missed it. EESU is part of the word! Coincidence? Doubtful. Here we go kids!

It's written 'SEEsuite' in the release. Personally, I'm too jaded to get excited about it, regardless of the glaring coincidence. I find the idea of LM f'n with our heads just 'cause they can rather entertaining to boot. =P

The SEEsuite system has potential major benefits to the electricity industry.

Most software used for managing electricity grids is internal, proprietary and clunky. It's also hugely expensive because of internal staffing needs to maintain and upgrade the software. Market rules change all the time and software systems have to be changed to match them. I remember a couple of times where the New England control area delayed implementation of new rules because their software wasn't yet ready.

An external, third party program like LM's would reduce costs and increase speed of upgrades. Power grid managers have incredible expertise but software programming isn't one of them. If there are multiple large users of SEEsuite, there are economies of scale in terms of manpower and other resources.

For anyone interested in what grid management looks like, here's an example. It's very complex but if anyone has questions on the ISO-New England management system, I'll do my best to answer them.

http://www.iso-ne.com/nwsiss/grid_mkts/pwr_sys/...

The following screen is the most important one. I always had it up on my work PC when I was managing my power plant. Current power prices are shown. They change every five minutes. The colors indicate whether prices are high or low (e.g. green is low, red is very high)

http://www.iso-ne.com/portal/jsp/lmpmap/Index.jsp

Last edited Mon, 25 Jan 2010, 6:52pm by Oakthicket

Generic wrote:

Fibb222 wrote:

StephenB wrote:

Yes, but that wouldn't make a sEESUite.

Oh Sh!t, I can't believe I missed it. EESU is part of the word! Coincidence? Doubtful. Here we go kids!

It's written 'SEEsuite' in the release. Personally, I'm too jaded to get excited about it, regardless of the glaring coincidence. I find the idea of LM f'n with our heads just 'cause they can rather entertaining to boot. =P

They are messing with us big time! LOL

I am a software dude by trade.

When software is released, "typically" they're tested with Q/A team over some period of time in the intended environment. (Including required hardware)

Conjecture here then is that seesuite was tested with a working EESU (s).

YYY

Doubt it.
EEStor stuff likely in the code, but neither visible nor activated, outside LM.
At a minimum, planned for / worked on, but not yet integrated in versions clients get.
Especially if LM ain't got their EESU, yet. :(
Hopefully, ZENN and LM are using some sort of limited pseudo-EESU hack job they've whipped up that helps them work through the myriad of other issues - cable size, routing, insulation, connectors / fasteners, ... - as best they can.

Oakthicket wrote:

Hello Hammer

That's a cool presentation. They've made some progress but it's mostly a vision for the future. The EPRI slides show installed battery storage totalling only 9 MW in micro-grids assuming the 2009 plan was executed on schedule. That's small potatoes, but the future potential looks bright.

Unless I'm mistaken, the Lockheed software is available now for use. While micro-grids using battery storage is a thing for the future, I believe the SEEsuite currently targets more traditional electricty management. The battery storage microgrid market is far too small at the moment.

There are existing microgrids that could benefit from such a system. Universities, hospitals and other services frequently have their own microgrids. Isolated communities not connected to a major grid could also benefit.

@Oakthicket -- Yeah, that CES idea is pretty new and obviously is not widely deployed yet. Ali Nourai, the author of that webcast, is with AEP (American Electric Power) who are doing lots of other testing of grid storage.

EESUs would fit very nicely into the CES concept.

Don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but hasn't LM been running military microgrids for a while? You know, like power systems for fire bases? This looks to me like they developed some software for military needs and are attempting to sell some copies to the private sector and raise a couple bucks. Nothing new here.

This kind of thing cracks me up. I would love to have this all pan out so we could all say "I toldja so" lol.

PaulF wrote:

Don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but hasn't LM been running military microgrids for a while? You know, like power systems for fire bases? This looks to me like they developed some software for military needs and are attempting to sell some copies to the private sector and raise a couple bucks. Nothing new here.

@PaulF: First of all, based on your previous negative posts, I'm guessing you are in fact trying to rain on this parade. Second, did you miss that major Lockheed press conference in DC from a few weeks ago, attended and videoed by Karl and another unknown blogger.

Here's a Seeking Alpha article about that conference:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/175879-lockheed...

And here's an archived copy of the panel presentations and Q&A, along with slides from the webcast of that conference:
http://www.visualwebcaster.com/event.asp?id=64391

Anyone who has read that previous info on LM's plans would have to have some kind of mental problems interpreting that sEESUite press release today as just some incremental product for LM's current military customers. I strongly believe that they're going after the commercial power markets in a major way and EESU is going to be a center-piece product for them in this effort. I'm just sayen ........

Last edited Mon, 25 Jan 2010, 10:36pm by Hammer

Hammer wrote:

Press release from LM today on their new utility-scale command-and-control software suite. Most interesting detail: "Lockheed's 'SEEsuite' -- Smart Energy Enterprise suite -- helps customers dynamically manage load during times of grid stress or volatile market prices, integrate and balance load from distributed energy resources, increase situational awareness for advanced decision making, and deploy and manage 'microgrids' – portions of the electric grid able to operate independently of the overall grid." Microgrids required storage.

Link to complete p.r.:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Lockheed-Martin-L...

Some more EESU "dots" for us all to connect together.

Quoting from the press release: ". . . SEEload also manages distributed energy resources including electric vehicles and energy storage devices to give utilities greater control over peak load and distributed energy resources. . . . "

Is there meaning in both "electric vehicles" and "energy storage devices" being described as "distributed energy resources?"

Is it possible that when large numbers of EESU-inside cars are parked, plugged into the grid, their ALREADY STORED electrical energy may be viewed as a RESOURCE? Instead of just creating a "drain" on the grid, electric cars may serve as sources of electricity, "resources" on which the grid may draw?

For example, after the morning commute when thousands of EESU-inside vehicles are parked at offices, out of use for hours; some will need charging, but others can serve as net suppliers of stored electricity, drawn upon, if necessary, as a resource for the "smart grid?"

Last edited Mon, 25 Jan 2010, 10:09pm by karl

Hammer wrote:

PaulF wrote:

Don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but hasn't LM been running military microgrids for a while? You know, like power systems for fire bases? This looks to me like they developed some software for military needs and are attempting to sell some copies to the private sector and raise a couple bucks. Nothing new here.

@PaulF: First of all, based on your previous negative posts, I'm guessing you are in fact trying to rain on this parade. Second, did you miss that major Lockheed press conference in DC from a few weeks ago, attended and videoed by Karl and another unknown blogger.

Here's a Seeking Alpha article about that conference:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/175879-lockheed...

And here's an archived copy of the slides from the webcast of that conference:
http://www.visualwebcaster.com/event.asp?id=64391

Anyone who has read that previous info on LM's plans would have to have some kind of mental problems interpreting that sEESUite press release today as just some incremental product for LM's current military customers. I strongly believe that they're going after the commercial power markets in a major way and EESU is going to be a center-piece product for them in this effort. I'm just sayen ........

L-M website has a large section devoted to energy production. Specifically green technology. Altruism aside, it is a way of defending the USA from energy blackmail. It is a way to make a buck. They are in business to make money and the EESU is a great fit into smart grid strategies.
My own thinking of "Minigrid" came up with this idea.My house uses 22Kw-hrs of power per day at peak January loads so a 52 Kw-hr EESU as envisioned by Zenn would run my house for over 2 days without grid or other power. Suppose I have an electric car equipped with an EESU. If I also have an additional EESU permanently wired into my house, I can program its charger/controller to only charge during off peak hours. This saves me money and helps the power company by reducing the peak demand. If the EESU controller can also be programmed to feed the grid during unusually high demands, I should be credited for the power at the higher price. If the power company doesn't want to pay me the higher price, they have to go to the capital expense of buying their own grid levelling EESUs. If I add solar or wind power to my house do I then qualify as a "Minigrid"?

Hello Lowell

Leaving aside the issue of whether the EESU is real or not, let me give my perspective on your question about a house being a 'minigrid.'

'Minigrid' is recent colloquial expression. The term used in the power industry for a long time is 'imbedded generation'.

Up to now, individual houses have not been allowed to feed their excess power into the grid. The main reason given by power transmission and distribution companies is that they're concerned that lots of individual feeds to the grid would upset reliability. I should also say that transmission and distribution companies are usually regulated so their profits are pre-determined. Grid reliability is by far their most important concern.

I think this will change. The move to distributed generation and mini-grids larger than a single house is the way of the future. I don't know how long it will be for a major push to allow individual houses to feed the grid. The demand to do so has to increase. Individual houses that have excess energy are very rare. When that number grows due to home wind and solar power, there'll be pressure to make changes in access rules.

There is also a major cost hurdle to overcome. For example, it will never be economical for a 120 volt home power source to transform power to a 69 kV, 138 kV or higher high voltage transmission line. Local use in distribution systems that run at lower voltages could be economical but there still is a price hurdle.

At any rate, only my opinions.

Thanks for the post Hammer,

While we can be certain of the LM involvement in promoting inovation for smart grid technology, the article does not give a link to the EESU and the name SEEsuite atrikes me as being their attempt at humour.

Yes, if and when the EESU is delivered and revealed in all its glory (an event I anxiously await), and if LM have a deal with EEStor all tied up, then I suspect we will see a direct link.

At present, it strikes me that this link is speculative.

But I am sure that - if they are watching - this thread will have brought a smile to someone at LM's face :-)

Kind regards
ei

PS. But heck, what would that smile mean? LOL

PaulF wrote:

Dude, you seriously don't know me at all. My "previous negative posts"? I have "previous negative posts"? Y_Po is laughing his guts out about this, I am sure.

Paul, if I've mis-characterized your previous posts, I humbly apologize -- my excuse is that I must have mistaken you for one of the horde of nay-sayers and negative Nellies that live on this site and find a way to crap all over every positive development that is reported.

Speaking of Y-Po, I'm sure he'll weigh in before long with some compelling logic on why this whole discusssion is all just a big pile of bull-shitski anyway.

Speculation, Yes. If we cut out all the speculation, this website would wither and die. I agree on the cost of home power systems. Solar has a very long way to go, but wind is just about affordable and could get my house off the grid. I live near the mountains in western Canada and we do have enough wind to make it pay out in about 20 years, but only if the storage medium is as cheap and long lasting as EEStor promises.