TheEEStory.com

cechilders wrote:

ONeil wrote:

Let's face it, Zenn is 10% of EEStor and a license to sell EESUs for small and midsized cars. Returns? (if it works) ... massive. If Zenn can leverage that 10% and license into something more, great.

What is massive? Very few people love small cars. The buy them because they are cheap and get good mpg. If I could have a larger vehicle with 100 mpg I would do it. Using the EESU to make large 100 mpg PHEVs will be much bigger than small cars. Look at it from the car makers. They can produce small cars with low profit margins or they can produce large cars, trucks, etc with big profit margins. The EESu supply will not be unlimited so where would you put your eggs? The eggs go into the most profitable basket.

Great. The last thing we need is a bunch of greedy Americans sucking down 200 kWh extra per week to power their 6500 pound Escalades EVs.

If that happened, Tec's predictions would almost certainly come true.

cechilders wrote:

ONeil wrote:

Let's face it, Zenn is 10% of EEStor and a license to sell EESUs for small and midsized cars. Returns? (if it works) ... massive. If Zenn can leverage that 10% and license into something more, great.

What is massive? Very few people love small cars. The buy them because they are cheap and get good mpg. If I could have a larger vehicle with 100 mpg I would do it. Using the EESU to make large 100 mpg PHEVs will be much bigger than small cars. Look at it from the car makers. They can produce small cars with low profit margins or they can produce large cars, trucks, etc with big profit margins. The EESu supply will not be unlimited so where would you put your eggs? The eggs go into the most profitable basket.

Dude, they have exclusive rights for small to midsize. They also have non-exclusive rights for all size vehicles. The question is can Zenn get EESU's cheaper than an OEM can from EEStor. If they can, then there is no reason they couldn't partner with some OEM and provide them with EESU's at a small profit.

cechilders wrote:

GM will spend 246 million dollars on electric drives.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/26/autos/gm_electr...

How can Zenn compete with that? All other major auto companies are spending millions on EVs as well. Zenn has how much money in the bank? The other major auto companies can use the EESU in larger SUVs etc without Zenn. Will Zenn be buried by the weight of money the big boys can spend?

Lol GM has been default for more than 10 years. It is the worst run company ever pissing away dollars. Any local barbershop can compete with GM.

sorry OP, but missing your point. you have GM with a drive technology and Zenn with the power to move the technology. your question might as well be how can GM compete against Exxon?

or how can GM compete against Harley Davidson?

i mean, like what??? does GM have something i am unaware of ?? sure doesnt seem like it. granted they have made a lot of noise lately, but i still only see a failing, poorly managed, widespread company with no focus. am i wrong?

Most technical innovations do show up in luxury cars first and then economy cars a few years later. I will buy the first electric car I can afford that is EESU equipped. I guarantee it won't be a Caddilac.

cechilders wrote:

Lowell wrote:

To Cechilders:

I am a gearhead. I watch all the tv shows about hotrods, lowriders etc. Tune in Speedvision or Spike on a Saturday morning and you may get an idea of how many other gearheads are out there. The market for tinkerers is huge. Every year there is a convention in Las Vegas for SEMA ( specialty equipment makers association ) It is possibly the biggest trade show in the USA and it is all car parts aimed at gearheads like me. If you are unaware of this market you simply have not botherd to look. I would bet that you do drive a car but your only interest in it is whether or not it is working. You probably have no interest in HOW it works.

Do not make the mistake of assuming you represent the world. Most people cannot set the time of the dvd much less convert a car to EV.

For the record my first conversion was a 1963 dodge dart. It was a slant 6 I build up so it could blow most small blocks away. The next car was a 1967 Camaro SS convertible (man I wish I had that now). I love cars and was working on them before I could drive (my dad's 56 ford pick up street rod). Just because I love something does not mean everyone does. I still work on my cars as much as the new computers allow. But I would never consider an old car conversion a good investment. The resell is not there and I would never save enough on gas to justify it.

cechilders,
Could you somehow be missing the concept of a company dedicated to converting large fleets instead of 10,000 shade tree mechanics converting one each of their own vehicles, each requiring its own specialized bracketry and controller? How many virtually identical taxi cabs are there in NYC? How about in Mexico City? How about cabs in London and in Germany and France and Italy? Some of these target conversions run into the 10s of thousands of virtually identical vehicles. How about UPS vehicles? How about FedEx and US Postal vehicles? Perhaps that kind of conversion market would make economic sense and scale nicely too. Ya think??

All EESU sales and many of the controllers would have to go through Zenn. Ya think??

CpctT@0R wrote:

cechilders wrote:

ONeil wrote:

Let's face it, Zenn is 10% of EEStor and a license to sell EESUs for small and midsized cars. Returns? (if it works) ... massive. If Zenn can leverage that 10% and license into something more, great.

What is massive? Very few people love small cars. The buy them because they are cheap and get good mpg. If I could have a larger vehicle with 100 mpg I would do it. Using the EESU to make large 100 mpg PHEVs will be much bigger than small cars. Look at it from the car makers. They can produce small cars with low profit margins or they can produce large cars, trucks, etc with big profit margins. The EESu supply will not be unlimited so where would you put your eggs? The eggs go into the most profitable basket.

Great. The last thing we need is a bunch of greedy Americans sucking down 200 kWh extra per week to power their 6500 pound Escalades EVs.

If that happened, Tec's predictions would almost certainly come true.

And Canadians and Europeans. Soccer mom's exist in most first world countries I guess.

BTW, I used to have a 73 240Z when I was a kid. Looooved that car. Everything is either an 8 mm or 10 mm. And that inline 6 ... :)

I'd love to pick one up as well.... after the reveal?

YYY.

DaveinOlyWA wrote:

sorry OP, but missing your point. you have GM with a drive technology and Zenn with the power to move the technology. your question might as well be how can GM compete against Exxon?

or how can GM compete against Harley Davidson?

i mean, like what??? does GM have something i am unaware of ?? sure doesnt seem like it. granted they have made a lot of noise lately, but i still only see a failing, poorly managed, widespread company with no focus. am i wrong?

I am sorry but that is not correct. GM will be able to buy the EESU for larger cars, trucks, etc. GM can get the power without Zenn. They can put more money into R&D than Zenn has ever dreamed of. GM can market a EESU powered drive without paying a penny to Zenn. A EESU powered GM drive is a direct competition to Zenn.

Goooose4 wrote:

cechilders wrote:

Lowell wrote:

To Cechilders:

I am a gearhead. I watch all the tv shows about hotrods, lowriders etc. Tune in Speedvision or Spike on a Saturday morning and you may get an idea of how many other gearheads are out there. The market for tinkerers is huge. Every year there is a convention in Las Vegas for SEMA ( specialty equipment makers association ) It is possibly the biggest trade show in the USA and it is all car parts aimed at gearheads like me. If you are unaware of this market you simply have not botherd to look. I would bet that you do drive a car but your only interest in it is whether or not it is working. You probably have no interest in HOW it works.

Do not make the mistake of assuming you represent the world. Most people cannot set the time of the dvd much less convert a car to EV.

For the record my first conversion was a 1963 dodge dart. It was a slant 6 I build up so it could blow most small blocks away. The next car was a 1967 Camaro SS convertible (man I wish I had that now). I love cars and was working on them before I could drive (my dad's 56 ford pick up street rod). Just because I love something does not mean everyone does. I still work on my cars as much as the new computers allow. But I would never consider an old car conversion a good investment. The resell is not there and I would never save enough on gas to justify it.

cechilders,
Could you somehow be missing the concept of a company dedicated to converting large fleets instead of 10,000 shade tree mechanics converting one each of their own vehicles, each requiring its own specialized bracketry and controller? How many virtually identical taxi cabs are there in NYC? How about in Mexico City? How about cabs in London and in Germany and France and Italy? Some of these target conversions run into the 10s of thousands of virtually identical vehicles. How about UPS vehicles? How about FedEx and US Postal vehicles? Perhaps that kind of conversion market would make economic sense and scale nicely too. Ya think??

All EESU sales and many of the controllers would have to go through Zenn. Ya think??

I will give you 10,000 shade tree mechanics, maybe even double that. The others will only do it if it is profitable. How would it be profitable to spend 15k per car or more to convert? Taxis are a low profit business to begin with. How can they justify the conversion? Even if all taxis, etc, convert is that a huge market? THe US sold about 12,000,000 cars. World wide about 50,000,000. If you convert 500,000cars that is one percent of one years production. Do you consider 1% of one year a huge part of the market? It is certainly enough to make money. It is not transforming the industry.

Do not forget a successful EESU will cause a drop in gas prices making it even more unprofitable to convert.

500,000 cars a year, times $2,000 in profit, just for the conversion market. That would rock! 1 billion in revenue from conversions alone.

It would not take long for the numbers to grow. Paying 5 bucks for a full charge, and doing so at home will have more appeal than you think. No more tune ups, no more oil changes, no radiator flushing, anti-freeze...these things add up. Brakes should last longer too with regen braking.

$15,000 to upgrade your car, extend its life, and save a bundle on fuel and maintenance. Vs. 30-50k for a new vehicle? Add in a few government incentives, and don't forget the high taxes on new vehicles in some countries.

eeinterested wrote:

Vs. 30-50k for a new vehicle?

CpctT@0R wrote:

eeinterested wrote:

Vs. 30-50k for a new vehicle?

What vehicles are you driving?

Audi TT and a Lexus GX470 SUV. 2002 and 2004. Love 'em, would be happy to convert them and keep them when they get older.

cechilders wrote:

ONeil wrote:

Let's face it, Zenn is 10% of EEStor and a license to sell EESUs for small and midsized cars. Returns? (if it works) ... massive. If Zenn can leverage that 10% and license into something more, great.

What is massive? Very few people love small cars. The buy them because they are cheap and get good mpg. If I could have a larger vehicle with 100 mpg I would do it. Using the EESU to make large 100 mpg PHEVs will be much bigger than small cars. Look at it from the car makers. They can produce small cars with low profit margins or they can produce large cars, trucks, etc with big profit margins. The EESu supply will not be unlimited so where would you put your eggs? The eggs go into the most profitable basket.

I doubt I'm alone in preferring a small or medium sized car over something that's way more expensive and a pain to park. If you're European, you certainly don't want a big car (given that the roads there were built for horses). Now, even if everyone did have an Nashville sized fried chicken butt and that would only fit in a half ton truck, Zenn would still be sitting pretty ... they own 10% of EEStor. If EEStor works Zenn wins. Any way you look at it.

eeinterested wrote:

CpctT@0R wrote:

eeinterested wrote:

Vs. 30-50k for a new vehicle?

What vehicles are you driving?

Audi TT and a Lexus GX470 SUV. 2002 and 2004. Love 'em, would be happy to convert them and keep them when they get older.

Something tells me you aren't a member of a 500,000 person market pool that has the resources to do the same as you wish to do.

I'm glad you are happy with what you've got though. I bet that Audi is fun!

cechilders wrote:

DaveinOlyWA wrote:

sorry OP, but missing your point. you have GM with a drive technology and Zenn with the power to move the technology. your question might as well be how can GM compete against Exxon?

or how can GM compete against Harley Davidson?

i mean, like what??? does GM have something i am unaware of ?? sure doesnt seem like it. granted they have made a lot of noise lately, but i still only see a failing, poorly managed, widespread company with no focus. am i wrong?

I am sorry but that is not correct. GM will be able to buy the EESU for larger cars, trucks, etc. GM can get the power without Zenn. They can put more money into R&D than Zenn has ever dreamed of. GM can market a EESU powered drive without paying a penny to Zenn. A EESU powered GM drive is a direct competition to Zenn.

cechilders wrote:

Goooose4 wrote:

cechilders wrote:

Lowell wrote:

To Cechilders:

I am a gearhead. I watch all the tv shows about hotrods, lowriders etc. Tune in Speedvision or Spike on a Saturday morning and you may get an idea of how many other gearheads are out there. The market for tinkerers is huge. Every year there is a convention in Las Vegas for SEMA ( specialty equipment makers association ) It is possibly the biggest trade show in the USA and it is all car parts aimed at gearheads like me. If you are unaware of this market you simply have not botherd to look. I would bet that you do drive a car but your only interest in it is whether or not it is working. You probably have no interest in HOW it works.

Do not make the mistake of assuming you represent the world. Most people cannot set the time of the dvd much less convert a car to EV.

For the record my first conversion was a 1963 dodge dart. It was a slant 6 I build up so it could blow most small blocks away. The next car was a 1967 Camaro SS convertible (man I wish I had that now). I love cars and was working on them before I could drive (my dad's 56 ford pick up street rod). Just because I love something does not mean everyone does. I still work on my cars as much as the new computers allow. But I would never consider an old car conversion a good investment. The resell is not there and I would never save enough on gas to justify it.

cechilders,
Could you somehow be missing the concept of a company dedicated to converting large fleets instead of 10,000 shade tree mechanics converting one each of their own vehicles, each requiring its own specialized bracketry and controller? How many virtually identical taxi cabs are there in NYC? How about in Mexico City? How about cabs in London and in Germany and France and Italy? Some of these target conversions run into the 10s of thousands of virtually identical vehicles. How about UPS vehicles? How about FedEx and US Postal vehicles? Perhaps that kind of conversion market would make economic sense and scale nicely too. Ya think??

All EESU sales and many of the controllers would have to go through Zenn. Ya think??

I will give you 10,000 shade tree mechanics, maybe even double that. The others will only do it if it is profitable. How would it be profitable to spend 15k per car or more to convert? Taxis are a low profit business to begin with. How can they justify the conversion? Even if all taxis, etc, convert is that a huge market? THe US sold about 12,000,000 cars. World wide about 50,000,000. If you convert 500,000cars that is one percent of one years production. Do you consider 1% of one year a huge part of the market? It is certainly enough to make money. It is not transforming the industry.

Do not forget a successful EESU will cause a drop in gas prices making it even more unprofitable to convert.

OK, have it your way. However, I do note that 500,000 might only be 1% of a decent year for car production, but these are all very high utilization vehicles (as opposed to your car and my car that only run for about an hour or two or three per day. I also think you are neglecting to consider things like delivery vans and similar. I live near a large port and the state and local government are beginning to mandate electric vehicles for dragging containers from the dock to local marshaling yards in order to reduce air pollution. The number of these tractors is in the hundreds ad they work 24 hrs per day.

Recently (perhaps 18-24 months ago) whomever owns the taxis in Mexico City put out an RFQ for retrofitting the Mexico City taxis. I don''t recall the exact number but I do thinking it was a huge number.

Additionally, 500,000 might be one or two years or a bit more of initial production totals - to be split among various markets (Zenn, Lockheed, LEVC, rid leveling, etc.)

cechilders wrote:

Of all the things I here from the believers there is nothing that surprises me more than the idea there will be a huge market for after market conversions. What is the world would make me want to spend 15,00 dollars or so to convert an old car to EESU?

Agreed. I don't see EV conversions being popular outside of hobbyist/enthusiast circles.

Look at BMW's Mini E for some of the reasons EV conversions don't work well from ICE. Where can you safely and effectively mount the battery (even if it is an EESU)? There are so many components in an ICE vehicle that make no sense in an EV. And I'd hate to be the emergency rescue team who cuts through a crashed car to cut out a trapped driver thinking it's an ICE to discover it's an EV.

AC Propulsion charges $55k to convert a $15k Scion to EV. Even without the battery cost, $15k EV conversions aren't realistic. It's like building a house in California for much under $100 sq ft - theoretically possible, rarely achieved in practice unless your time is worth zero, and if you do achieve it, you will be living in a very basic house.

Of course, all of this supposes that Zenn is actually building a Zennergy drive. I've seen no evidence that Zenn are hiring engineers, and LinkedIn still only shows a handful on the payroll. Compared to GM's effort $246m effort, Zenn is basically a joke.

Last edited Wed, 27 Jan 2010, 10:57pm by 8ball

cechilders wrote:

I will give you 10,000 shade tree mechanics, maybe even double that. The others will only do it if it is profitable. How would it be profitable to spend 15k per car or more to convert? Taxis are a low profit business to begin with. How can they justify the conversion? Even if all taxis, etc, convert is that a huge market? THe US sold about 12,000,000 cars. World wide about 50,000,000. If you convert 500,000cars that is one percent of one years production. Do you consider 1% of one year a huge part of the market? It is certainly enough to make money. It is not transforming the industry.

Do not forget a successful EESU will cause a drop in gas prices making it even more unprofitable to convert.

Would you call the Toyota Prius a successful car model? In the first 10 years of production they sold 639,500 cars. It took until the 8th year to break 100,000 units world wide. In 2009 they sold more Prius units than the first 7 years combined. In Japan for 2009, Prius was the best selling automobile capturing a bit over 10% of all sales, and capturing 20% of all sales in Dec 2009.

The Prius is a gasoline powered automobile car with only some of the advantages of an EV. Like regenerative braking and consuming no gasoline when stopped at intersections. And yet it captured 20% of the new sales market in Japan during it's best sales month of 2009 that's impressive.

Conversions may sound like a small market... Toyota in 1997 sold 300 Prius units. Followed by 17,700 in 1998, and 15,200 in 1999.

The conversion market will be there. It won't support a company like GM as it's only source of income. But It will support many smaller companies interested in converting fleet vehicles like city buses. Lot's of buses in the US and around the world. They last for decades, and are built off a common chassis for decades of production runs. Will cities consider converting? It's much cheaper to convert a fully depreciated bus to EV than to buy a new diesel powered bus or a new EV bus.

There will be a conversion market, not just for gear heads like me that are building their own cars in the garage. Plenty of fleet vehicles to be converted out there. Zenn has the rights to supply all the EESUs for use in any used vehicle conversion.

Right now, there are over 2 million Prius out there, and each one is a pretty simple conversion to plug-in hybrid. Just need a suitable battery. Lithium Ion based conversions are already selling in small numbers at $10,000 each. Sell a higher kWh, EESU powered version at $5,000 and you will have Prius owners lined up around the block.

Last edited Thu, 28 Jan 2010, 9:48am by Cobraphx

Cobraphx wrote:

Right now, there are over 2 million Prius out there, and each one is a pretty simple conversion to plug-in hybrid. Just need a suitable battery. Lithium Ion based conversions are already selling in small numbers at $10,000 each. Sell a higher kWh, EESU powered version at $5,000 and you will have Prius owners lined up around the block.

Yes Absolutely.

Cobraphx wrote:

Right now, there are over 2 million Prius out there, and each one is a pretty simple conversion to plug-in hybrid. Just need a suitable battery. Lithium Ion based conversions are already selling in small numbers at $10,000 each. Sell a higher kWh, EESU powered version at $5,000 and you will have Prius owners lined up around the block.

The $10k Hymotion Li-Ion battery for the Prius is an inaccurate basis for comparison, because the Prius is already partly an EV. The Hymotion module is solely the battery and power module, with no drive system or any of the other components needed.

A more accurate comparison is the AC Propulsion Scion EV conversion, which is $55k plus the cost of the vehicle.

SHOW ME THE MONEY! will someone please show me the scenario where a conversion makes sense in dollars. Please let's see how much to convert vs how much gas will be saved. AS has been said many times , what is cheapest will win.

8ball wrote:

A more accurate comparison is the AC Propulsion Scion EV conversion, which is $55k plus the cost of the vehicle.

8ball wrote:

Cobraphx wrote:

Right now, there are over 2 million Prius out there, and each one is a pretty simple conversion to plug-in hybrid. Just need a suitable battery. Lithium Ion based conversions are already selling in small numbers at $10,000 each. Sell a higher kWh, EESU powered version at $5,000 and you will have Prius owners lined up around the block.

The $10k Hymotion Li-Ion battery for the Prius is an inaccurate basis for comparison, because the Prius is already partly an EV. The Hymotion module is solely the battery and power module, with no drive system or any of the other components needed.

A more accurate comparison is the AC Propulsion Scion EV conversion, which is $55k plus the cost of the vehicle.

My point is that there is a large number of vehicles with an easy conversion path to EESU power. 2 million hybrid vehicles on the road that can easily be converted to plug-in hybrid for a relatively low cost. And Zenn has exclusive rights to those conversions if they utilize EESUs.

Zenn wrote:

• Exclusive rights for the aftermarket conversion to ZENNergy™ drive of any 4-wheel vehicles that utilize internal combustion, electric, (or a combination thereof) drive systems and have been licensed for road use for more than one year.

Even if only 2 percent of current Prius owners opted to convert per year, (let's assume 1.5 million are still on the road). That's a 30,000 conversions per year. Toyota Prius production is scheduled to exceed 600,000 in 2010. So that market will grow every year in large numbers. In 2011, if 5% of owners decided to spend $5000 to convert their beloved Prius to Zennergy power, that would make for 105,000 conversions and $525,000,000 in sales. If profit were 5%, that would make for $26,250,000 in revenue.

Conversions on all semi's, taxis, buses are gimmes. People who drive a ton would pay for itself pretty quick also. Say someone drives 60,000 a year, at $3 a gallon, 20mpg that's $9000 a year in fuel. Say electric is a third of that and they save 6000 a year on fuel alone plus much lower maintenance costs. Then you'll have a ton of people like the nerds on this site who even if its long term getting there money back will do it because of the cool factor, not to mention all the environmentalists. It also will be like having a brand new car, and even for an average driver of say 15,000 miles a year, would save probably 1500-1800 on fuel/maintenance each year and likely in their best interest long term to switch over(adding tax incentives would greatly increase this.) I see retrofit being huge. Zenn will likely also manufacture the complete drivetrain packages also since they have a monopoly on the Eesu here.

Fibb222 wrote:

Cobraphx wrote:

Right now, there are over 2 million Prius out there, and each one is a pretty simple conversion to plug-in hybrid. Just need a suitable battery. Lithium Ion based conversions are already selling in small numbers at $10,000 each. Sell a higher kWh, EESU powered version at $5,000 and you will have Prius owners lined up around the block.

Yes Absolutely.

You cannot do a conversion for 5,000. The EESU is nothing like the battery in perfomance. It would require a total conversion of the electronics.

Let's use your Prius and your low numbers. Assume 15,000 miles per year. The prius gets 50 mpg. That is 300 gallons a year @3.00 a gallon = $900 a year for gas. At $10,000 to convert it would take 11.11 years to recoup the initial investment. That is the best possible scenario using your numbers. Not to mention the Prius is a hybrid meaning it has a gas engine. Do not expect he gas engine to last another 11.11 years so you can recoup the investment. If you assume the gas engine and other parts of the Prius will not last and additional 11.11 years you will never be able to recoup the initial investment. I have not counted what you would pay for electricity, what you could get in return for investing the $10,000 if you did not use it for conversion, etc. A Prius conversion (the cheapest and simplest by a long way) will never pay for itself using your own numbers which are very low. Show me how to pay for a conversion. .

Last edited Thu, 28 Jan 2010, 2:02pm by cechilders

cechilders- what do you think is a likely price for gasoline 5 or 10 years from now? People have very different views on this and those that believe peak oil is here want to protect themselves from what could happen to the price of oil soon. I personally would like a conversion before oil doubles, triples or quadruples, not after because ESSU's might be tough to get ahold of then.

Diamondude wrote:

cechilders- what do you think is a likely price for gasoline 5 or 10 years from now? People have very different views on this and those that believe peak oil is here want to protect themselves from what could happen to the price of oil soon. I personally would like a conversion before oil doubles, triples or quadruples, not after because ESSU's might be tough to get ahold of then.

What will be the cost of electricity 5 to 10 years from now? What other electrical storage will be available in 5 to 10 years? In fact if the EESU is so great there may be very low demand for gas and it will be dirt cheap. Just listen the your fellow believers. The EESU will make gas all but worthless. The possible future costs are not one sided they apply to the EV part as well. You must make calculations based on the known factors as they are now. Gas is self regulating if it gets too high people will stop using it either by design or because of recession.

cechilders wrote:

Of all the things I here from the believers there is nothing that surprises me more than the idea there will be a huge market for after market conversions. What is the world would make me want to spend 15,00 dollars or so to convert an old car to EESU?

Y'all should try reading some of the old threads. This has been gone over repeatedly.

The big potential in the conversion market is in fleets of vehicles used heavily every day: taxis, delivery vehicles, mailman delivery vehicles. The U.S. Postal Service has already done a study on converting its fleet to EVs.

I don't know how "huge" the market will be, but it should be sufficient to earn ZMC some short-term income, in the two years or so until auto OEMs start selling cars with EESUs in them.

- - - - - - - - -

The argument about big cars, SUVs etc. is ridiculous. ZMC doesn't have to have a monopoly on powering every single new car and light truck sold. It just has to have a good potential market, one big enuff to make it huge wodges of money. And there is such a market worldwide. Americans prefer big cars, but in the worldwide market, small cars outsell big cars by a wide margin. Even the domestic market for small and mid-sized cars is large enuff to make ZMC investors rich beyond the dreams of avarice, or at least the avarice of just about everyone except Grizz and his ridiculous claims of a 9000x increase in ZMC stock price.

Last edited Thu, 28 Jan 2010, 2:38pm by Lensman

sammyn wrote:

Conversions on all semi's, taxis, buses are gimmes. People who drive a ton would pay for itself pretty quick also. Say someone drives 60,000 a year, at $3 a gallon, 20mpg that's $9000 a year in fuel. Say electric is a third of that and they save 6000 a year on fuel alone plus much lower maintenance costs. Then you'll have a ton of people like the nerds on this site who even if its long term getting there money back will do it because of the cool factor, not to mention all the environmentalists. It also will be like having a brand new car, and even for an average driver of say 15,000 miles a year, would save probably 1500-1800 on fuel/maintenance each year and likely in their best interest long term to switch over(adding tax incentives would greatly increase this.) I see retrofit being huge. Zenn will likely also manufacture the complete drivetrain packages also since they have a monopoly on the Eesu here.

Insanity, just pure insanity. How many EEUSs will it take for a semi? They weight 40,000 to 70,000 pounds not 2,000 to 3,000 pounds. The cost would be a $100,000 or more to convert a semi. What about range. The EESU will drive a small car 250 miles. Even if you had the equivalent storage for a semi how many semi drivers do you know who will stop every 250 miles? Long haul vehicles will not use the EESU.

It would be like having a brand new car with 10 years wear on the suspension, 10 years wear on the interior, 10 years of rust, 10 years of paint scratches and fading, etc. You have very low standards for a brand new car.

sammyn wrote:

I think ricinro makes a good point:

Sammyn, you have quoted a post from Lensman (that's me) in which I quoted ricinro.

Please learn to use the "quote" link that's at the bottom of a post you want to quote. And please don't attribute a post made by one forum member to another.

The post you quoted improperly is, I hope, properly quoted below:

Lensman wrote:

ricinro wrote:

Thanks Lens,

I think they are staffing up application engineers to work with OEMs to integrate Zennergy (drivetrain). I still have doubts that the drive train has any mechanical components other than the EESU and perhaps a controller module (not the PEM).

I have similar doubts. The ZENNergy Drive website says:

The ZENNergy™ drivetrain solution promises to deliver energy storage packs that are
• one-tenth the weight and mass of lead acid batteries,
• capable of one million-plus cycles,
• able to be fully recharged faster than any electrochemical battery and deliver superior performance in extreme operating temperatures
• safe
• cost effective – lower cost than current Lithium Ion battery technology

This suggests to me that ZMC will be concentrating on selling EESUs, PEMs and whatever else is needed to interface with the actual drive train, and not trying to develop a full drive train with motor, driveshaft, differential, and axles... as the image on their website suggests.

And it would make far more sense to limit their efforts to just the EESU and interfaces. No auto manufacturer is going to want an inexperienced company like ZMC to design a full drive train for them!