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Sun, 11 Apr 2010, 7:08pm #1
DGDanforth
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I am a bit disgruntled at the closed architecture of Apple's iPad.

It seems you can only download applications via iTunes store. The hardware is not based on the 386 architecture. You need Apple's approval to install anything.

My thoughts drift to considering a competing device that has the same look and feel as the iPad but has open architecture and open source.

What would really make it take off is if it had very long battery life. If it had an EESU inside.

Not happy with Apple.


EEStor Hopeful.

"Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler" A. Einstein
"Alas, simplicity is rarely simple" curiositEE

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Sun, 11 Apr 2010, 7:43pm #2
starm_
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Yeah Apple is being thoroughly evil recently. Hopefully, Android based "pads" and "pods" are coming.

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Sun, 11 Apr 2010, 7:54pm #3
eeinterested
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The first to adopt the EESU will have a killer advantage in this category. Three working days of power, fast recharging, no replacement, ever.

It will be interesting which way DW goes; does he make a deal with Dell or Apple, or does he pick a middleman, a la Zenn.

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Sun, 11 Apr 2010, 8:02pm #4
jimbobway
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It will be hard to compete with Apple. They have all the key technologies in place in both the hardware and the software.

Apple's OS (Operating System) currently is superior to the Android in terms of marketability. I believe, however, Android will over take the the iPad/iPhone/iTouch OS in the long run.

As for the hardware Apple has a 1-2 year advantage with the A4 all-in-one chip which is very low power and provides a long battery live. It will take some time for other chip manufacturers to catch up with the A4.

As a side note Apple does not support Flash...if someone were to offer an open Flash competitor...


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Sun, 11 Apr 2010, 8:27pm #5
starm_
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As much as I think Apple is being evil, I hate flash and I hope it dies a painful death or at least suffers from heavy collateral damage in this OS war. Html5 is the future.

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Sun, 11 Apr 2010, 8:36pm #6
jimbobway
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starm_ wrote:

As much as I think Apple is being evil, I hate flash and I hope it dies a painful death or at least suffers from heavy collateral damage in this OS war. Html5 is the future.

I am working on something to kill Flash...stay tuned...


Lensman 10/8.6

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Sun, 11 Apr 2010, 8:51pm #7
squid
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http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/google-a...

All this talk of iPads makes me think of the Pixel Qi monitors.

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Sun, 11 Apr 2010, 9:07pm #8
Bretspot
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Has anyone in this thread ever used (for any length of time) an iPhone or iPad? I've been using an iPhone and 95% of the people I know who use one cannot imagine anything else being better.

The closed "ecosystem" of apples apps make it incredibly difficult for any other hardware/software platform to ever take over. The fact that Apples system is closed means that developers can *Actually* make money for a change instead of everyone stealing software... (Honestly how much software do you buy vs "borrow"? There are also what.. 100,000+ Apps on iTunes vs Androids maybe 10,000... Piratically anything you are looking for they have.. hence the saying "There's an app for that". I dont know exactly where I was going with other than to say, I dont forsee anything beating out apple anytime soon...


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Sun, 11 Apr 2010, 9:27pm #9
starm_
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I have used and developed on iDevices and am looking forward to purchasing an Android device soon. Sure Apple has a significant head start but from what I read recently, Android is catching up. See:
http://gizmodo.com/5490299/android-surges-while...
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/04/07/andro...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXwel89p59c

I can't wait to try an Android based device.

I have, at this instant, the Android development environment running in front of me and am in the process of porting one of my free iPhone app. The main reason my apps are not already on Android is that Google doesn't let us Canadians publish paid apps in their Marketplace yet. But that is a minor piss off compare to what Apple has been doing lately. I think google will open up their store to us soon. I also hear developers are starting to make money off of the Android platform.

The lack of respect from Apple for their developer community will push many others to publish more and more Android apps. The transition to Android domination might happen more quicky than some expect.

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Sun, 11 Apr 2010, 10:15pm #10
DGDanforth
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squid wrote:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/google-a...

All this talk of iPads makes me think of the Pixel Qi monitors.

Squid,
Nice find. Thank you.


EEStor Hopeful.

"Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler" A. Einstein
"Alas, simplicity is rarely simple" curiositEE

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Sun, 11 Apr 2010, 10:22pm #11
DGDanforth
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Bretspot wrote:

Has anyone in this thread ever used (for any length of time) an iPhone or iPad? I've been using an iPhone and 95% of the people I know who use one cannot imagine anything else being better.

The closed "ecosystem" of apples apps make it incredibly difficult for any other hardware/software platform to ever take over. The fact that Apples system is closed means that developers can *Actually* make money for a change instead of everyone stealing software... (Honestly how much software do you buy vs "borrow"? There are also what.. 100,000+ Apps on iTunes vs Androids maybe 10,000... Piratically anything you are looking for they have.. hence the saying "There's an app for that". I dont know exactly where I was going with other than to say, I dont forsee anything beating out apple anytime soon...

My problem with developing software for the iPhone is there documentation is quite bad. They seem to just keep adding layers of documentation without cleaning up or editing previous information. You can get several hits for the same search and not be able to tell what is the most recent and relevant.

I also dislike Objective-C which they use for development. Its a poor man's object oriented approach just laid on top of C code.

Their tools are obscure to say the least.

I poked around for about a month a wrote a few test programs but got discussed with their development environment.

I am very biased toward Niklaus Wirth's approach to programming which is elegant clean and simple. No muss no fuss. When I step from BlackBox/Component Pascal back into the C world its like traveling back to the dark ages.

Just my opinion (with a lot of justification).

-Doug


EEStor Hopeful.

"Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler" A. Einstein
"Alas, simplicity is rarely simple" curiositEE

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Sun, 11 Apr 2010, 11:33pm #12
evnow
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Bretspot wrote:

I've been using an iPhone and 95% of the people I know who use one cannot imagine anything else being better.

Failure of imagination ?


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Sun, 11 Apr 2010, 11:34pm #13
evnow
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DGDanforth wrote:

It seems you can only download applications via iTunes store. The hardware is not based on the 386 architecture. You need Apple's approval to install anything.

Think of this as Xbox 360 / PS3 rather than a PC.

Tight control of end to end user scenarios leads to better user experience. Just compare with Windows phones, lot more features but bad user experience.


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Sun, 11 Apr 2010, 11:52pm #14
spaceballs_3000
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starm_ wrote:

Yeah Apple is being thoroughly evil recently. ...

Recently?

lol.


The only thing that will slowly change believer's minds is years of unfulfilled promises.

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Mon, 12 Apr 2010, 12:37am #15
WolverineFan
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I swear, things are becoming so bad in the new "IP economy" that I can't even tell what EVIL looks like anymore.

Yes I own an iPhone and I've tried to write a few apps for it (I agree with DGDanforth regarding Objective C and the dev tools).

I see both the good and the bad in the "app store" model.

There is definitely a big win for consumers with a 3rd party "vetting" the software. Granted, that vetting process is far from perfect, but it certainly makes it much harder for a "bad guy" (talking about the Russian mob now, not Apple) to hack a legit program and append a virus/trojan/etc.

On the other hand, it gives that vetting 3rd party an extreme amount of control. Google had several apps declined by Apple since they were deemed to compete with Apple offerings (or things Apple wanted to be able to offer someday, or things that other companies had agreed to pay tons of money to Apple to be able to do). I'm sure in the reverse situation, Google has probably refused some Android apps. That's definitely not good for the consumers and competition.

I guess there just isn't a perfect world out there... It's a pity we missed the window back in the late 90's to give everyone public/private keys that could be trusted... If the NSA hadn't insisted on a "back door" it MIGHT have happened and we might have a lot more trust available now.


As of Feb 1, 2011 I'm officially no longer a believer. I even went back to my first post here on Sept 16, 2008 and found that somewhere along the line I gave EEStor an extra MONTH to prove it to me. They failed.

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Mon, 12 Apr 2010, 2:23am #16
tonku
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DGDanforth wrote:

I am a bit disgruntled at the closed architecture of Apple's iPad.

It seems you can only download applications via iTunes store. The hardware is not based on the 386 architecture. You need Apple's approval to install anything.

My thoughts drift to considering a competing device that has the same look and feel as the iPad but has open architecture and open source.

What would really make it take off is if it had very long battery life. If it had an EESU inside.

Not happy with Apple.

Hi You can wait for the Notion Ink Adam, its Android, with special screen make it work as an ebook reader as well

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Mon, 12 Apr 2010, 10:58am #17
starm_
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WolverineFan wrote:

There is definitely a big win for consumers with a 3rd party "vetting" the software. Granted, that vetting process is far from perfect, but it certainly makes it much harder for a "bad guy" (talking about the Russian mob now, not Apple) to hack a legit program and append a virus/trojan/etc.
[...]
I guess there just isn't a perfect world out there... It's a pity we missed the window back in the late 90's to give everyone public/private keys that could be trusted... If the NSA hadn't insisted on a "back door" it MIGHT have happened and we might have a lot more trust available now.

It's not that bad, even in Android, all the apps have to be signed by the developer so that the carriers, or anyone who manages Android devices for that matter, can probably put restrictions in their firmware based on this. Even if they don't put much restrictions, you end up with a security model that is pretty much as good as what you get on secure websites such has online banking. In the case of the web, the browser will warn you if the certificate can't be trusted and it's your choice to ignore the warning or not. It has been working well enough for online banking.I don't see why it wouldn't work for Android apps. Just need to set the devices so that by default they won't run apps with untrusted certificates and you will at least stop widespread propagation of security issues.

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Mon, 12 Apr 2010, 11:49am #18
WolverineFan
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Speaking of Apple and evil...

http://daringfireball.net/2010/04/why_apple_cha...

Interesting analysis I thought...

Essentially the change says that you can develop for the iPhone using any toolkit, so long as the language you're writing code in is C/C++/ObjC. Apple gives that away for free, so you might as well use Apple's tools. Bye bye competition.


As of Feb 1, 2011 I'm officially no longer a believer. I even went back to my first post here on Sept 16, 2008 and found that somewhere along the line I gave EEStor an extra MONTH to prove it to me. They failed.

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Mon, 12 Apr 2010, 4:53pm #19
Glen
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R.I.M. bought QNX. Neutrino RTOS, Yum Yum.

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Sun, 02 May 2010, 3:29am #20
squid
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Last visit: Tue, 11 Oct 2011
Posts: 409

DGDanforth wrote:

I am a bit disgruntled at the closed architecture of Apple's iPad.

It seems you can only download applications via iTunes store. The hardware is not based on the 386 architecture. You need Apple's approval to install anything.

My thoughts drift to considering a competing device that has the same look and feel as the iPad but has open architecture and open source.

What would really make it take off is if it had very long battery life. If it had an EESU inside.

Not happy with Apple.

I second Tonku's post. The NotionInk Adam is what you are looking for:

http://www.notionink.in/adamoverview.php

I just found out about this thing after reading the latest on the Pixel Qi blog. This device sounds amazing. Just what the doctor ordered.

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Sun, 02 May 2010, 3:38am #21
student
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jimbobway wrote:

It will be hard to compete with Apple. They have all the key technologies in place in both the hardware and the software.

Apple's OS (Operating System) currently is superior to the Android in terms of marketability. I believe, however, Android will over take the the iPad/iPhone/iTouch OS in the long run.

As for the hardware Apple has a 1-2 year advantage with the A4 all-in-one chip which is very low power and provides a long battery live. It will take some time for other chip manufacturers to catch up with the A4.

As a side note Apple does not support Flash...if someone were to offer an open Flash competitor...

Crap. You're right. This is horrible. Apple bought Intrinsity. I was hoping to see a Hummingbird in the next kindle. So much for wishful thinking.

They have a two year lead.


Bill Nye says limits for a dielectric are simply what have been demonstrated to date.


Jack LaLanne

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Sun, 02 May 2010, 10:00am #22
farmEEr
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I am not old enough to remember the first time Apple had a success but it seems to me they are making the same mistakes. Keeping their systems closed and controlled.

The more you tighten your grip, Apple, the more people slip through your fingers.

The bigger and more mature the market gets the more innovation will happen in the open architecture. IMHO


They're not building pet rocks in there.
eesu.farmeer@gmail.com

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Sun, 02 May 2010, 10:21am #23
GS
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Why buy an iPad when netbooks competently fill that market niche? Is it about having one arm free?

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Sun, 02 May 2010, 3:02pm #24
Paulcummings55
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GS wrote:

Why buy an iPad when netbooks competently fill that market niche? Is it about having one arm free?

Think about the niche that the ipad or netbook fills? It is not about having a stand-alone system, but having a system as an adjunct to your main system (at least for most folks)- something you can easily travel with, to listen to music with, check email, read an occassional book. I think in the near future, you will see the confluence of the netbook, ebook reader and Ipad into one, multi-touch device that uses color e-ink- the big question is will such a device be better with or without a keyboard? Of course there may be room for both devices, but I think one will overshadow the other, and I think it will be one without a keyboard.

After that, the next big question will be which OS will dominate this type of device- one from Apple, from Google or one from Microsoft- do not discount MS even at this point- they have deep pockets and will not go quietly into the night in any market segment. But that is good- utlimately, having 3 competitors will bring cheaper, more fully-featured devices to the consumer.


Paul C in Austin
"The calm before the Eestorm"

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Sun, 02 May 2010, 6:31pm #25
Shere Khaan
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MS appears to be useless in the device field. You only have to look at the Zune to understand that MS believe the specs are the most important thing in a device, and that this doesn't translate to market share.

I find it interesting that MS and Apple are now ganging up on Flash. Good on them, I can't stand flash websites.

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Sun, 02 May 2010, 8:26pm #26
DGDanforth
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My main interest is programming. Scientific programming. I do that now using Component Pascal from Oberon Microsystems Inc. It runs on Intel processors. I am actually using a MacBook with Parallels virtualization to access Window XP.

I would like to have that in a tablet form with touch screen where I can sit out under a tree rather than being confined to a desk.

Ideally I want symbolic mathematics that I can push around with my finger and create mathematical expressions that can be evaluated and graphically displayed. For example: Solutions of Schrodinger's equation, fluid dynamics (for wind turbine simulations), Clifford algebra's for the foundation of quantum theory and hyper dimensional bit spaces, etc.

I am not a consumer of audio or video. I am a producer. Hence I do not fall into the "market" to which Apple is shooting. There is, however, another fairly large market of engineers, scientists, and students.

Just my two cents.


EEStor Hopeful.

"Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler" A. Einstein
"Alas, simplicity is rarely simple" curiositEE

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Sun, 02 May 2010, 9:38pm #27
student
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DGDanforth wrote:

My main interest is programming. Scientific programming. I do that now using Component Pascal from Oberon Microsystems Inc. It runs on Intel processors. I am actually using a MacBook with Parallels virtualization to access Window XP.

I would like to have that in a tablet form with touch screen where I can sit out under a tree rather than being confined to a desk.

Ideally I want symbolic mathematics that I can push around with my finger and create mathematical expressions that can be evaluated and graphically displayed. For example: Solutions of Schrodinger's equation, fluid dynamics (for wind turbine simulations), Clifford algebra's for the foundation of quantum theory and hyper dimensional bit spaces, etc.

I was hoping kindle 3 might come close.

Speaking of fluid dynamics, why do you think Whale Power's designs aren't being licensed utilized more swiftly by companies? I mused they might want to wait until the IP dies out. Not sure if there is a better reason to wait.


Bill Nye says limits for a dielectric are simply what have been demonstrated to date.


Jack LaLanne

student scale: 1.5%

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Mon, 03 May 2010, 3:48pm #28
RmW
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The DOJ and FTC are going after Apple.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/an_antitr...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"After years of being the little guy who used Washington to fend off Goliaths like Microsoft, Apple CEO Steve Jobs is about to learn what life is like when the shoe's on the other foot.

According to a person familiar with the matter, the Department of Justice and Federal Trade Commission are locked in negotiations over which of the watchdogs will begin an antitrust inquiry into Apple's new policy of requiring software developers who devise applications for devices such as the iPhone and iPad to use only Apple's programming tools."

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/an_antitr...

YES! - We'll know in a couple days.

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Mon, 03 May 2010, 4:05pm #29
Paulcummings55
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student wrote:

DGDanforth wrote:

My main interest is programming. Scientific programming. I do that now using Component Pascal from Oberon Microsystems Inc. It runs on Intel processors. I am actually using a MacBook with Parallels virtualization to access Window XP.

I would like to have that in a tablet form with touch screen where I can sit out under a tree rather than being confined to a desk.

Ideally I want symbolic mathematics that I can push around with my finger and create mathematical expressions that can be evaluated and graphically displayed. For example: Solutions of Schrodinger's equation, fluid dynamics (for wind turbine simulations), Clifford algebra's for the foundation of quantum theory and hyper dimensional bit spaces, etc.

I was hoping kindle 3 might come close.

Speaking of fluid dynamics, why do you think Whale Power's designs aren't being licensed utilized more swiftly by companies? I mused they might want to wait until the IP dies out. Not sure if there is a better reason to wait.

Whale Power- now there is a fish tale I have been following for awhile;-) I would imagine it is not easy or quick to test a Whale Power blade on a like system with traditional blades- and, sadly, unless such things are discovered/designed in-house, I think most companyies' inertia keep them from changing very quickly, especially if they have orders and materials already on hand. The Whale Power technology is intriquing- I hope they are able to fully commercialize it.


Paul C in Austin
"The calm before the Eestorm"

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Thu, 26 Aug 2010, 5:51pm #30
jimbobway
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jimbobway wrote:

starm_ wrote:

As much as I think Apple is being evil, I hate flash and I hope it dies a painful death or at least suffers from heavy collateral damage in this OS war. Html5 is the future.

I am working on something to kill Flash...stay tuned...

Sorry to bring back such an old thread, but I finally have a beta demo of my "Flash Killer" I have been working on.

www.bluedojo.com

Cooties - The Soon To Be Flash Killer

Beta Version
Build animations without Flash. No Flash plug-in required for animations to play. Runs in any web browser including IE, Firefox, Chrome, Safari. Animations runs on iPad and iPhone. Based on HTML5.


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