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Grid / Load leveling patent granted to EEStor « Patents « Technology
 
Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 3:06am #1
Mark
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The previously disclosed patent application 11/499,594 has been approved as patent 7729811 !!
http://www.theeestory.com/files/pat7729811.pdf
This patent details the grid leveling use of EESU's.

http://theeestory.com/files/EEStorPatent.jpg

Patent application 12/785,380 popped up as a child patent of the 7729811 patent. This presumably builds on or expands upon this grid leveling use.

Strictly discussions on the patents and applications noted above only.

Mark
** thanks wasmaba
** thanks TV

Last edited Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 10:49am by eestorblog

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 3:29am #2
wasmaba
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I love it, from the patents... hot swap eesu's for ups devices to keep your computers up. LOL

Yet another feature of this architecture is to provide real time incremental changes to EESU main unit energy storage capability. This is sometimes called "hot swapping.

When can I buy one please? Where can I buy one please? Adios generator at the office, hello hot swapped eesu. I am in love...


EEStor’s legitimacy is a job for Carl Sagan and Sherlock Holmes. Times are a changing.
http://theeestory.com/posts/47263 TY B,TV,Nekote. http://theeestory.com/topics/1949

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 3:40am #3
wasmaba
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When power goes out on cell phone towers, battery back ups take over... if the power is out for long, diesel generators are rushed out...

With eesu... no ice engine to maintain, no fuel to transport, just send a driver with a high school education to hot swap Lockeed Martin style battpacks once or twice a day.

No need to carry fuel and maintain the generator on your construction work truck... just recharge eesu every night in the garage or construction yard.

Theft will be an issue... Hey Dude... let go of my eesu.

While the EESU components can be packaged in a variety of materials, one embodiment packages the components within a hermetically sealed metal box or container. For EESUs to be used in inland locations, the metal could be Type 316 stainless steel. If the EESU is located near or on the ocean, (or some other corrosive environment) other metals such as titanium can be used. This generally provides the long lifetime (e.g., >50 years) required or desired by utilities and the like.

Last edited Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 3:45am by wasmaba


EEStor’s legitimacy is a job for Carl Sagan and Sherlock Holmes. Times are a changing.
http://theeestory.com/posts/47263 TY B,TV,Nekote. http://theeestory.com/topics/1949

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 4:06am #4
wasmaba
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Two coatings...

100 .ANG. of aluminum oxide as the first coating and 100 .ANG. of calcium magnesium aluminosilicate glass as the second coating, can be safely charged to 3500 V. These coatings also assist in significantly lowering the leakage and aging of ceramic components comprised of the calcined composition-modified barium titanate powder.


EEStor’s legitimacy is a job for Carl Sagan and Sherlock Holmes. Times are a changing.
http://theeestory.com/posts/47263 TY B,TV,Nekote. http://theeestory.com/topics/1949

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 4:53am #5
tvillars
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Patent 7,729,811 with diagrams included: http://www.theeestory.com/files/pat7729811.pdf

Thought this table from the patent was interesting:

http://www.theeestory.com/files/pat7729811_-_Table_1.jpg


contact: tvillars -at- gmail dot com

Past Predictions 1 - 4, 6

Current Predictions

5) component to have specific energy between 550 to 650 Wh/kg

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 5:01am #6
student
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495Wh/kg = ~105kg for 52kWh EESU.
752Wh/L = ~69L for 52kWh EESU
41 centimeter cube?

Missing anything?

[posted same time as TV.]


Bill Nye says limits for a dielectric are simply what have been demonstrated to date.


Jack LaLanne

student scale: 1.5%

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 5:22am #7
Mark
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student wrote:

495Wh/kg = ~105kg for 52kWh EESU.
752Wh/L = ~69L for 52kWh EESU
41 centimeter cube?

Missing anything?

[posted same time as TV.]

Would that figure include packaging and control electronics ?

Mark

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 5:57am #8
Bone
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Seems like they forgot to include the dc/dc converters in the description. Maybe they have a purpose to do so, but I can't see what that purpose would be.


1 on Lensman scale

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 6:28am #9
Yukon
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seems to line up with LM's SEESUite doesnt it....


"Electricity is really just organized lightning"
George Carlin

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 7:10am #10
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5 patents now? ;)


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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 7:20am #11
Yukon
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13 to go?


"Electricity is really just organized lightning"
George Carlin

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 7:29am #12
Mark
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More I think as the last 2 apps are very very recent.

The last 2 patents really broaden what eestor are doing.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

The question is if this is a 'scam' whats the point of the barium nitrate and grid leveling patents .... a lot of work and very good if you have EESU's ....

Mark

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 8:00am #13
Yukon
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Mark wrote:

More I think as the last 2 apps are very very recent.

The last 2 patents really broaden what eestor are doing.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

The question is if this is a 'scam' whats the point of the barium nitrate and grid leveling patents .... a lot of work and very good if you have EESU's ....

Mark

Great work Mark...does anyone still (let me qualify that, anyone with a brain) really think this is a scam???????????????????????????????


"Electricity is really just organized lightning"
George Carlin

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 9:10am #14
DAP
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Mark wrote:

This patent details the grid leveling use of EESU's.

I'm probably being too picky, but one might make a distinction between the broader term "grid-leveling," which includes devices that store energy to be fed into the grid and "load-leveling," which is the subject matter of the claims of this new Eestor patent.


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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 9:41am #15
student
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Why would they patent this?


Bill Nye says limits for a dielectric are simply what have been demonstrated to date.


Jack LaLanne

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 10:03am #16
DAP
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Bone wrote:

Y_Po wrote:

This patent is bullshit

Good summary.

Although not the summary, following is text from the Background section of the '811 patent:

In the event that power cannot be provided by the utility, e.g., blackout conditions, demand response power reductions, etc., one or more generator based secondary power sources 120 are available. Here "DG" refers to available diesel generators. Precisely which power source is used at any particular time is controlled by power electronic switch 115. In the simplest example, power is switched from one or the other of utility grid 110 and secondary power source 120, but in other cases power can be delivered from some combination of the two. However, since secondary power sources such as generators typically take several seconds to several minutes to bring on line, and additional secondary power source (UPS 130) is used to provide short term but quickly available power until power from generators is available.

The most common types of motor generator units are internal combustion engines (ICs, whether gasoline, diesel or natural gas based), gas turbines (GTs), and microturbines (MTs). In addition to having finite start-up times, all of these types of motor generator units have various other drawbacks. For example, the generators are typically complex machines that require special operation and routine maintenance, their electrical efficiency is typically in the range of 20-40%, the equipment lifetime may be 10-20 years, they require combustible and sometimes dangerous fuels, they produce various emissions, and their availability (e.g., as affected by device failures) can be limited to 90-95%. Moreover, initial equipment costs, fuel costs, and maintenance costs can make such generators a very expensive secondary power source.

UPS systems use stored energy as a secondary power source to protect the critical load and provide sufficient time to switch motor generators on-line to assure no loss in power to the user. The reliability of this stored energy is fundamental to the reliability of the system. Due to their advantages in cost, energy storage density, discharge characteristics, and infrastructure, lead-acid batteries are the most commonly used type of stored energy in UPS systems today. In particular, valve-regulated lead-acid (VRLA) batteries are dominant in this application. However, despite battery manufacturers' best efforts to improve their products, experience has shown that the useful life of a VRLA battery array in conventional double-conversion UPS systems is two to three years. Beyond two years, cell failure rates quickly reach unacceptable levels.

Electrochemical batteries prematurely reach end of life for two reasons: manufacturing defects and battery management issues. Manufacturing defects include "cold" welds between adjacent cells; inter-cell shorts; reversed plates; incomplete casting of the battery straps resulting in dropped plates; defects in paste mixing, which lead to poor paste adhesion; and contamination of the paste or electrode. To overcome these inherent problems of lead-acid batteries, a battery management strategy is typically tailored to the type of battery and its application. For example, VRLA batteries in conventional double-conversion UPS systems are float charged, that is they are continuously supplied with a low charging voltage. The circuit topology necessary for this can cause a significant amount of heat to be continuously generated in the batteries. In flooded lead-acid batteries made with lead-calcium grids, the batteries are not continuously float charged. Nevertheless, other battery maintenance strategies may be important. For example, battery temperature may need to be tightly controlled to reduce corrosion that destroys the battery's capacity to generate current. Limiting the depth of discharge is important in controlling electrolyte stratification in flooded lead-acid batteries. Stratification is the increase of electrolyte specific gravity at the bottom of the battery, and techniques to ameliorate stratification can be difficult and/or costly. Thus, current secondary power source system technology suffers from a variety of drawbacks.

Accordingly, it is desirable to have improved devices and techniques for providing secondary power sources for use as backup power to grid-supplied electrical power.

Anything that improves the situation described in the Background section is useful and not BS.

Last edited Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 10:10am by DAP


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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 10:07am #17
student
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But why would they patent it? This is like using a spatula to flip burgers instead of scrambling eggs.

"We now have patent protection on flipping burgers with a spatula."


Bill Nye says limits for a dielectric are simply what have been demonstrated to date.


Jack LaLanne

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 10:12am #18
Y_Po
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student wrote:

But why would they patent it? This is like using a spatula to flip burgers instead of scrambling eggs.

"We now have patent protection on flipping burgers with a spatula."

Exactly :)


Q: What would happen if you give 12V battery and two 6V light bulbs to Weir/Nelson?

A: They will wait 8 years for 12V➜6V DC-DC converter.

http://theeestory.com/topics/3687
http://theeestory.com/topics/2105
http://theeestory.com/topics/4835

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 10:15am #19
DAP
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student wrote:

But why would they patent it? This is like using a spatula to flip burgers instead of scrambling eggs.

"We now have patent protection on flipping burgers with a spatula."

If you are licensing the rights to a company that will be setting up load-leveling systems which integrate your storage device, a patent to that system is very useful.

Plus, it is a good selling point in general. Think of the publicity at the date of the reveal.


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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 10:22am #20
Basic
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DAP wrote:

student wrote:

But why would they patent it? This is like using a spatula to flip burgers instead of scrambling eggs.

"We now have patent protection on flipping burgers with a spatula."

If you are licensing the rights to a company that will be setting up load-leveling systems which integrate your storage device, a patent to that system is very useful.

Plus, it is a good selling point in general. Think of the publicity at the date of the reveal.


Why EESTOR choose an exclusive right licensing model for the vehicles market, and now indeed get a patent for grid/load leveling market ?

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 10:23am #21
student
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I say BS DAP.

But I did think of a good reason. Some companies like BYD reverse engineer equipment in an industrial setting. They don't sell it, they just use it for internal purposes. This kind of patent could prevent this from occurring in the relevant application.

I still think it is pointless though. If it took Weir and Nelson this long to come up a supposedly working unit I can't imagine how long it would take someone else to copy it. I don't think it would be worth the investment.


Bill Nye says limits for a dielectric are simply what have been demonstrated to date.


Jack LaLanne

student scale: 1.5%

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 10:28am #22
Bone
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student wrote:

But why would they patent it? This is like using a spatula to flip burgers instead of scrambling eggs.

"We now have patent protection on flipping burgers with a spatula."

Exactly! And it is patent for flipping burgers with specific clumsy style. No-one would use it even if the spatula is fine.


1 on Lensman scale

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 10:46am #23
wasmaba
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can it flip V2G?


EEStor’s legitimacy is a job for Carl Sagan and Sherlock Holmes. Times are a changing.
http://theeestory.com/posts/47263 TY B,TV,Nekote. http://theeestory.com/topics/1949

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 10:47am #24
ricinro
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When I saw the schematic on the patent I did not see an industrial scheme as much as I saw a household application. There is incoming grid power, main EESU(house EESU) and some buffers. The two "portable" EESUs are likely vehicles. This patent is likely protecting a product that has not been announced yet- I'll call it HOUStor.
HOUStor may utilize SEESuite as well as Polarity's hardware or perhaps some LM designed hardware. It would be wise to establish standards to make this easy to integrate into home design and get past building inspectors.
HOUStor may also have some options for charging robots in the garage and proprietary plugs for charging EESUs. 3kv likley exceeds the present standards for EV plugs.

http://theeestory.com/files/EEStorBackupSystem.jpg

Last edited Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 12:44pm by eestorblog


Thanks BTV for the blog

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 12:36pm #25
tvillars
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ricinro wrote:

When I saw the schematic on the patent I did not see an industrial scheme as much as I saw a household application. There is incoming grid power, main EESU(house EESU) and some buffers. The two "portable" EESUs are likely vehicles. This patent is likely protecting a product that has not been announced yet- I'll call it HOUStor.
HOUStor may utilize SEESuite as well as Polarity's hardware or perhaps some LM designed hardware. It would be wise to establish standards to make this easy to integrate into home design and get past building inspectors.
HOUStor may also have some options for charging robots in the garage and proprietary plugs for charging EESUs. 3kv likley exceeds the present standards for EV plugs.

Thanks for this. I saw "portable EESU" and thought that is just weird as nearly nothing is portable when it comes to Utility sized equipment. Dick really seems to be focused on getting the vehicle market.

Last edited Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 12:44pm by tvillars


contact: tvillars -at- gmail dot com

Past Predictions 1 - 4, 6

Current Predictions

5) component to have specific energy between 550 to 650 Wh/kg

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 12:39pm #26
eestorblog
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tvillars wrote:

ricinro wrote:

When I saw the schematic on the patent I did not see an industrial scheme as much as I saw a household application. There is incoming grid power, main EESU(house EESU) and some buffers. The two "portable" EESUs are likely vehicles. This patent is likely protecting a product that has not been announced yet- I'll call it HOUStor.
HOUStor may utilize SEESuite as well as Polarity's hardware or perhaps some LM designed hardware. It would be wise to establish standards to make this easy to integrate into home design and get past building inspectors.
HOUStor may also have some options for charging robots in the garage and proprietary plugs for charging EESUs. 3kv likley exceeds the present standards for EV plugs.

Thanks for this. I saw "portable EESU" and thought that is just weird as nealry nothing is portable when it comes to Utility sized equipment. Dick really seems to be focused on getting the vehicle market.

So, a piece of speculation that we've all held here...namely that the car charging unit will function as a whole house electrical power back up....is what is being described in this patent?

Anyone agree/disagree???


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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 12:43pm #27
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http://theeestory.com/files/EEStorBackupSystem.jpg


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http://theeestory.com/topics/1949

I believe in miracles and UFO's.

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 4:13pm #28
ricinro
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eestorblog wrote:

tvillars wrote:

ricinro wrote:

When I saw the schematic on the patent I did not see an industrial scheme as much as I saw a household application. There is incoming grid power, main EESU(house EESU) and some buffers. The two "portable" EESUs are likely vehicles. This patent is likely protecting a product that has not been announced yet- I'll call it HOUStor.
HOUStor may utilize SEESuite as well as Polarity's hardware or perhaps some LM designed hardware. It would be wise to establish standards to make this easy to integrate into home design and get past building inspectors.
HOUStor may also have some options for charging robots in the garage and proprietary plugs for charging EESUs. 3kv likley exceeds the present standards for EV plugs.

Thanks for this. I saw "portable EESU" and thought that is just weird as nealry nothing is portable when it comes to Utility sized equipment. Dick really seems to be focused on getting the vehicle market.

So, a piece of speculation that we've all held here...namely that the car charging unit will function as a whole house electrical power back up....is what is being described in this patent?

Anyone agree/disagree???


There could be an interpretation of this patent being for utility grade load leveling but I would expect the portable EESUs to be scaleable. The schematic just shows two.
There is dedicated hardware shown in the schematic and this is something Polarity could produce if polarity can learn to be a bit less "military" in their designing and more low cost and commercial.
Perhaps LM will be the prime for "HOUStor". We may hearing an announcement soon about this.

I would like to mention also that EVs, home charging, V2G, load leveling make less sense as separate technologies than they do if presented together as synergistic technologies. Could this be holding up AHBL?


Thanks BTV for the blog

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 4:42pm #29
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Excellent Patent to emerge. What is the reason for the change in Patent number do you think?

My son's birthday today also. All in all a good day.


10!

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Tue, 01 Jun 2010, 5:58pm #30
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tvillars wrote:

Patent 7,729,811 with diagrams included: http://www.theeestory.com/files/pat7729811.pdf

Thought this table from the patent was interesting:

http://www.theeestory.com/files/pat7729811_-_Table_1.jpg

TV One thing I noticed (And continues to encourage me that this thing is REAL and has been tested (At least on the component level)) is that the properties of the EESU keeps changing slightly over time. For instance... If you look in the Wiki page it says "NONE" for Lifecycle with deep cycle use. But in this version it says "Very low". To me that means... they thought it was almost 0 but it turns out it does have degradation over time after continued testing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eestor


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