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EEStor Technology Demonstration « Military « Industry Applications
 
Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 4:36pm #1
eestorblog
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http://bariumtitanate.blogspot.com/2010/09/eestor-teases-government-agencies-with.html

Last edited Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 9:52pm by nekote


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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 4:43pm #2
Tec
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Typical! No names. Everything hearsay and deniable when nothing happens.

The only thing that rings true is that Weir has lost all credibility.

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 4:49pm #3
sully
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Thanks for the hard work B ---
Now I have a reason to check with my DOE source and see if I can come up with more---I'll let you know if I find out anything interesting

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 4:53pm #4
hillcountry
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B....can you post a copy of the email?

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 4:54pm #5
Gravee
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I am not sure if this is good news or bad news. I was hoping there would be some completed units by now.


No need to call me an IDIOT...My wife already has that covered.

Light the fuse, I'll try to hold on!

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 4:55pm #6
eestorblog
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Tec wrote:

Typical! No names. Everything hearsay and deniable when nothing happens.

The only thing that rings true is that Weir has lost all credibility.

I emailed you the names of all of the sources. You are forbidden from posting them or discussing under penalty of lifetime ban. ...yes, we can do that again.


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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 4:58pm #7
hillcountry
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Yeah....they are certainly not as far along with the process of production as one would like to see this far into 2010. However, if they have what they say they do....one can insist we do a Manhattan type project and bring it to high production capabilities.....in the name of energy independence and national security. The govt during WW2 built many production facilities (designated defense facilities) and then later sold them to US Corporations. I hope Ian gets to show something on the 13th of Sept.

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:03pm #8
Lowell
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Thanks for your tireless digging B. The plot thickens. Hope there is more to come from these sources.


Think noble thoughts.

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:05pm #9
energy investor
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Thanks for your digging B.,

It would be interesting to know the outcome of the Sandia test...always assuming it has or will happen.

kind regards
ei

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:11pm #10
tony-ynot
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Holy Hanna, B - Great work. I need to re-read your post, but wanted to say "congratulations". Two quick questions:
1. Will Ian Clifford be able to say anything new next Monday? and;
2. Do you think that Shelby's new EV vehicle will be powered by EEStor's EESU? (Just an hour or so earlier I posted a comment about this on the stockhouse site).
Cheers,
Tony

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:13pm #11
paulF
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I have one observation and one question.
Given that you have been doing background on this for, what, a week? You must have called DW on this. My question is simple. What did DW say?


Cry Havoc! and let slip the trolls of bickering!

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:15pm #12
hillcountry
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Thanks TV for doing the digging with the FOIA.

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:18pm #13
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Based on normal practice, I would expect a 4 to 12 week lead time for an invitation to test a unit at EEStor. Some time this week or next is a good guess.

You can be sure that AFRL and Scandia will not be fooled if any significant amount of energy is charged and discharged.

I doubt that they will accept low power or energy levels. 15 kW-hr is a good number.

Based on my own conclusion on capital equipment costs DW has a very uphill battle to retain control and finance EEStor. DW - it may be time to take a minority stake and get out of the way!


All I want for Christmas is a Graphene / Ionic Liquid Electrical Generator.

PNeilson@NeilsonLabs.com

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:25pm #14
Jack A
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eestorblog wrote:

teases

From your link:
As on AFRL researcher put it, "remember Pons & Fleischmann."

What is that supposed to mean?

That the hope of cold fusion as offered by Pons/Fleishmann was dashed, yet humans (and even shrimp) can get 'cold' 'fusion'? Or that, as far as the mass of people are concerned cold fusion is a 'joke'? Or that one should not stick their neck out lest it be chopped off?

What exactly are we to remember about Pons/Fleishmann?

http://www.lenr-canr.org/ - for those of you who want to believe that, somehow, a viable way of power generation can happen via 'cold fusion'.

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:29pm #15
Jack A
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Tec wrote:

The only thing that rings true is that Weir has lost all credibility.

A non-credible person would not get various Gov. backed lab staff to come and visit where they are for a tech demo.

Lunch - sure. But a tec demo - No WAY would they bother comming for a tec demo if you have no credibility.

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:29pm #16
eestorblog
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Jack A wrote:

eestorblog wrote:

teases

From your link:
As on AFRL researcher put it, "remember Pons & Fleischmann."

What is that supposed to mean?

That the hope of cold fusion as offered by Pons/Fleishmann was dashed, yet humans (and even shrimp) can get 'cold' 'fusion'? Or that, as far as the mass of people are concerned cold fusion is a 'joke'? Or that one should not stick their neck out lest it be chopped off?

What exactly are we to remember about Pons/Fleishmann?

http://www.lenr-canr.org/ - for those of you who want to believe that, somehow, a viable way of power generation can happen via 'cold fusion'.

The reference indicated that P&F caused a lot of hope only to have their claims unable to be replicated...proven...whatever you want to call it.


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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:31pm #17
Technopete
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Tec,

Just a reminder of something you will need to know to come to the London post-reveal party:-

http://theeestory.com/files/chestertrains.jpg

I'll certainly be buying the first round of drinks.

Even the date on the image is now beginning to look more realistic.

Regards,
Peter


Assumptions: 1) E=1/2CV2. (Only dummies assume this). (I am one of these dummies).

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:34pm #18
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According to one official, they weren't actually certain of whether or not Sandia owned the proper equipment to conduct a test of EEStor's technology...something declared unlikely by a senior battery tester at Intertek Inc. who was asked whether equipment to test EEStor level technology was available via commercial off the shelf equipment. According to an AFRL researcher, Weir has his own test gear. Additionally, according to a third company also in discussions to attend their own EEStor demonstration,

Well it would be wonderful were this to be conclusive. I hope it will happen, and it will be conclusive.

Alarm bells ring at the above quote.

Testing EEstor tech requires one component, a 3500 V supply, a resistor, a potential divider.

Available to all, and transparent. Just as good to determine ED and therefore technology. An EESU is just lots and lots of components.

Testing an EESU is much more difficult, and less transparent. If it is a black box it is difficult to distinguish between capacitor and battery. The high current tests that would determine internal resistance are not easy, because need very high power ratings. The power needed to charge/discharge quickly also needs high power source/load and is more difficult - though obviously possible.

I would not accept test with EEstor's test gear unless the whole setup was verified externally. Further, I would be concerned about use of battery to mimic EESU. There are ways to detect this, but may not make part of the EEstor tests.


Assumptions: 1) E=1/2CV2

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:39pm #19
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B wrote:

It would appear that another implication of all of these revelations is that Dick Weir truly has kept his technology a secret even from those in the Defense industry who would seem to have the most to gain from it.

This will surprise believers who think that LM scientists validate existence of EEstor tech.

But not me: the tech does not do what DW claims.


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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:40pm #20
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ee-tom wrote:

I would not accept test with EEstor's test gear unless the whole setup was verified externally. Further, I would be concerned about use of battery to mimic EESU. There are ways to detect this, but may not make part of the EEstor tests.

Tom,

Since EEStor are claiming twice the ED of a Li ion battery then it is very easy - you charge the EESU a few times and discharge each time into some equipment capable of taking high power and measuring energy. For a 15KWH EESU the weight would be 40KG which the Sandia testers could easily lift up for themselves to verify - they don't need complex scales. They could even be invited to supply their own voltmeter and ammeter, if only to check the calibration of those of EEStor.

You could very easily prove that the black box, if not an ultracapacitor, at least beat every other known rechargable energy source known to man. Who then would care what was inside it?

p.s. OK I take it back - I forgot about the di-Lithium crystals, which are actually very common of course.

Regards,
Peter


Assumptions: 1) E=1/2CV2. (Only dummies assume this). (I am one of these dummies).

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:41pm #21
eggdescrambler
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Tec wrote:

Typical! No names. Everything hearsay and deniable when nothing happens.

The only thing that rings true is that Weir has lost all credibility.

Gives me a sample of how much fun we gonna have with this guy here when we are at "reveal". :-)


Each month, Dick Weir moves 50% closer to his goal. But when he does: I'll be ready to kick the door and get out of the barn upon reveal. Ron Paul 2012!

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:42pm #22
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The skeptic, who will remain unnamed as an unearned courtesy from yours truly, asked Weir if he had completed fabrication of a device. No, but Weir felt they were close enough to make the invitation. Is Weir saying "no" in relation to fully completed EESU's (cf. "pick n place robots") or in relation to basic EESU components? The records do not clarify and attempts to gain more information via interviews have stalled.

So all this info comes from a time when DW was expecting to have working technology at some future date.

Hmmm.... Where have we heard that before?

There is no evidence here that this demonstration has been/ will be ever held. I hope, since I prefer to think of DW as basically honest, that it is never held!

On the other hand more fun, and less waiting, for us if it is held.

Last edited Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:54pm by ee-tom


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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:44pm #23
Technopete
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ee-tom wrote:

B wrote:

It would appear that another implication of all of these revelations is that Dick Weir truly has kept his technology a secret even from those in the Defense industry who would seem to have the most to gain from it.

This will surprise believers who think that LM scientists validate existence of EEstor tech.

But not me: the tech does not do what DW claims.

Tom,

Just capturing this in a post which can only be deleted by me or a moderator - for posterity. Just to make sure I can remind you in years to come of your views before your impending conversion!

If you are that convinced, why not offer to double your bet with TV right now! If you win you get to buy me a drink. If you lose I suspect I will be buying you drinks for a long time to come.

BTW. Talking of drinks, did you know that the Rising Sun was never open on a Monday. Having walked ~9 miles along the Dollis Valley Green Walk / London Ring to get there from here three of us were happily expecting a cool drink or two plus some lunch, only to find that the Rising Sun was shut. What a disappointment!

Regards,
Peter

Last edited Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:51pm by Technopete


Assumptions: 1) E=1/2CV2. (Only dummies assume this). (I am one of these dummies).

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:47pm #24
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Technopete wrote:

ee-tom wrote:

I would not accept test with EEstor's test gear unless the whole setup was verified externally. Further, I would be concerned about use of battery to mimic EESU. There are ways to detect this, but may not make part of the EEstor tests.

Tom,

Since EEStor are claiming twice the ED of a Li ion battery then it is very easy - you charge the EESU a few times and discharge each time into some equipment capable of taking high power and measuring energy. For a 15KWH EESU the weight would be 40KG which the Sandia testers could easily lift up for themselves to verify - they don't need complex scales. They could even be invited to supply their own voltmeter and ammeter, if only to check the calibration of those of EEStor.

You could very easily prove that the black box, if not an ultracapacitor, at least beat every other known rechargable energy source known to man. Who then would care what was inside it?

p.s. OK I take it back - I forgot about the di-Lithium crystals, which are actually very common of course.

Regards,
Peter

Alas no TP - there are batteries with higher ED. Admittedly pretty cutting edge, so I would probably be convinced with a repeated charge/discharge test enough times to prevent any primary tech.

BUT - the EESU ED is quite low, all that air between components. It will be black box test. We would have to look carefully at all the parameters to see, and compare with the best secondary batteries (advanced Li-ion, or Li-sulfur, etc) and also the best primaries, to determine number of cycles needed.

I realise I don't know, would need to do some careful checking.


Assumptions: 1) E=1/2CV2

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:49pm #25
ee-tom
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Technopete wrote:

ee-tom wrote:

B wrote:

It would appear that another implication of all of these revelations is that Dick Weir truly has kept his technology a secret even from those in the Defense industry who would seem to have the most to gain from it.

This will surprise believers who think that LM scientists validate existence of EEstor tech.

But not me: the tech does not do what DW claims.

Tom,

Just capturing this in a post which can only be deleted by me or a moderator - for posterity. Just to make sure I can remind you in years to come of your views before your impending conversion!

Regards,
Peter

If I'm wrong, I will admit it. But see my comments on B's article!

I bet this demo will not happen.


Assumptions: 1) E=1/2CV2

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:51pm #26
Jack A
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eestorblog wrote:

The reference indicated that P&F caused a lot of hope only to have their claims unable to be replicated...proven...whatever you want to call it.

The EEStor claims are well known and well hashed over and over here. And capacitors are also well known.

The only thing in this case is "Does this capacitor exist that can store a VERY large amount of energy VS what other caps can do?"

What would Weir gain by faking a test? Once he takes government backed money he has to start dancing to their tune. And I can't imagine that government money would just flow that way just because some people saw something at an office in Texas.

As for 'cold fusion' existing:

Fusion at room temps is demonstrated with Sonofusion. I'm just not sure you can get from shrimp snapping their pincers to viable energy source.

Perhaps someone would be willing to fund the 'put a bucket of live shrimp down (test subjects) pants and see if there is cold fusion' test at a post reveal party?

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:52pm #27
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PNeilson 10 wrote:

Based on normal practice, I would expect a 4 to 12 week lead time for an invitation to test a unit at EEStor. Some time this week or next is a good guess.

You can be sure that AFRL and Scandia will not be fooled if any significant amount of energy is charged and discharged.

I doubt that they will accept low power or energy levels. 15 kW-hr is a good number.

Based on my own conclusion on capital equipment costs DW has a very uphill battle to retain control and finance EEStor. DW - it may be time to take a minority stake and get out of the way!

PN - it is ED that matters. So testing a single component, where the test eqpt is much lower power, more transparent, can more easily be tested, would be better. I could buy a supply & put together the kit from standard sources for a $1000. It could simply be verified & calibrated without high power kit.

After all, an EESU is just lots of components.


Assumptions: 1) E=1/2CV2

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:55pm #28
Technopete
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Jack A wrote:

What would Weir gain by faking a test? Once he takes government backed money he has to start dancing to their tune. And I can't imagine that government money would just flow that way just because some people saw something at an office in Texas.
It seems unlikely that DW will want to take government money - for the reasons you quoted above. What he is after is a gold-plated government agency endorsement that the EESU exists and delivers the ED that he is claiming.

Once DW has this then he can borrow all the money he needs at advantageous rates, always assuming the auto makers don't throw so much license fee money at him that he does not know what to do with it.

Regards,
Peter


Assumptions: 1) E=1/2CV2. (Only dummies assume this). (I am one of these dummies).

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:56pm #29
Robert
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Weir has indicated he has hired a 3rd party to calibrate and validate his test equipment.

Presumably, We can now expect a press release to announce that his test equipment has been calibrated.

This will no doubt be met with many great hosannas.

Robert

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Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 5:59pm #30
Robert
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ee-tom wrote:

PNeilson 10 wrote:

Based on normal practice, I would expect a 4 to 12 week lead time for an invitation to test a unit at EEStor. Some time this week or next is a good guess.

You can be sure that AFRL and Scandia will not be fooled if any significant amount of energy is charged and discharged.

I doubt that they will accept low power or energy levels. 15 kW-hr is a good number.

Based on my own conclusion on capital equipment costs DW has a very uphill battle to retain control and finance EEStor. DW - it may be time to take a minority stake and get out of the way!

PN - it is ED that matters. So testing a single component, where the test eqpt is much lower power, more transparent, can more easily be tested, would be better. I could buy a supply & put together the kit from standard sources for a $1000. It could simply be verified & calibrated without high power kit.

After all, an EESU is just lots of components.

Absolutely, a single component is sufficient and perhaps necessary.

I'd place my equipment estimate a little higher. OTOH I suspect Sandia might have a few surplus HV supplies lying around and HV bleeder resistors from them might make a reasonable load.

Robert

Last edited Mon, 06 Sep 2010, 6:08pm by Robert

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