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While sitting in the front row seats with Y_No we were having a business discussion about personal scooters and who that market will belong to. The hover round is a 4 wheel vehicle while other scooters are 3 wheeled.

Who will end up with the lions share of that market? I had always thought of LightEV as owning the 2 wheeled motor scooter market but the personal scooter battery market is huge. (no need to wait for the development of road worthy electric motor scooters.) Is this a divided market or is there a minimum weight requirement for Zenn in the off road scooter market?

LightEV could become a major player overnight.

Shouldn't you end your post by shouting "THE FUTURE IS ELECTRIC!" os something equally fatuous?

EEdreamer wrote:

Tec, are you thinking Diesel-powered mobility scooters is the way to go? Perhaps you didn't intend to convey such a high level of your own fatuousness.

That's the beauty of this market, not even Tec can make an argument that diesel is the right way to go. Beyond that is the huge existing battery replacement market in both the 3 and 4 wheeled personal scooters. I have always thought a was near 100% up on what Zenn and LightEV's agreements cover. I'm wondering if this is a cut and dry 3 vs. 4 wheeled market or is there a clause?

I wouldn't have thought it a huge market but I could be wrong. You mean the things used by people with disabilities?

The ones here are powered by lead acid cells by the look of them. Probably this is the most cost-effective solution.

Eenigma wrote:

...we were having a business discussion about personal scooters and who that market will belong to. The hover round is a 4 wheel vehicle while other scooters are 3 wheeled.

Who will end up with the lions share of that market? I had always thought of LightEV as owning the 2 wheeled motor scooter market but the personal scooter battery market is huge. (no need to wait for the development of road worthy electric motor scooters.) Is this a divided market or is there a minimum weight requirement for Zenn in the off road scooter market?

Hey, Eenigma! Congratulations on finding a new topic for discussion which is actually *on* topic.

It certainly may seem at first glance that ZMC's exclusive license may cover four-wheeled handicapped scooters and powered wheelchairs. But does it? Let's look at the relevant portions of the description of the license as it was reported to SEDAR:

• Exclusive Rights for new passenger vehicles ...

• Exclusive Rights for neighbourhood electric vehicles (NEV) and golf carts...

• Exclusive Rights for utility vehicles...

• Exclusive Rights for the aftermarket conversion of any four-wheeled vehicles... which have been previously licensed for road use...

• Non-exclusive Rights to purchase and deploy EEStor’s EESU in new passenger vehicles...

Looks to me like one-person (no "passenger") "scooters" which can't be licensed for road use don't qualify for the license. Sorry, Hoveround owners! You'll have to get your EESU upgrade from someone else.

Now, I could be mistaken: What qualifies as a "utility vehicle"? My previous research showed that term is applied to offroad vehicles which look like miniature jeeps or pickup trucks:

But I think I've read elsewhere that the "utility vehicle" stipulation in ZMC's license includes fork lifts. So I'm not sure just what that category includes.

Lensman wrote:

Eenigma wrote:

...we were having a business discussion about personal scooters and who that market will belong to. The hover round is a 4 wheel vehicle while other scooters are 3 wheeled.

Who will end up with the lions share of that market? I had always thought of LightEV as owning the 2 wheeled motor scooter market but the personal scooter battery market is huge. (no need to wait for the development of road worthy electric motor scooters.) Is this a divided market or is there a minimum weight requirement for Zenn in the off road scooter market?

Hey, Eenigma! Congratulations on finding a new topic for discussion which is actually *on* topic.

It certainly may seem at first glance that ZMC's exclusive license may cover four-wheeled handicapped scooters and powered wheelchairs. But does it? Let's look at the relevant portions of the description of the license as it was reported to SEDAR:

• Exclusive Rights for new passenger vehicles ...

• Exclusive Rights for neighbourhood electric vehicles (NEV) and golf carts...

• Exclusive Rights for utility vehicles...

• Exclusive Rights for the aftermarket conversion of any four-wheeled vehicles... which have been previously licensed for road use...

• Non-exclusive Rights to purchase and deploy EEStor’s EESU in new passenger vehicles...

Looks to me like one-person (no "passenger") "scooters" which can't be licensed for road use don't qualify for the license. Sorry, Hoveround owners! You'll have to get your EESU upgrade from someone else.

Now, I could be mistaken: What qualifies as a "utility vehicle"? My previous research showed that term is applied to offroad vehicles which look like miniature jeeps or pickup trucks:

But I think I've read elsewhere that the "utility vehicle" stipulation in ZMC's license includes fork lifts. So I'm not sure just what that category includes.

Yeah I read that but it's the golf cart aspect that is throwing me.

Look at this

http://www.discountscooters.com/wrangler.html

Outdoor Personal Mobility Vehicle
This is our fastest and most rugged model, designed for outdoor all-terrain use. The Wrangler can travel at speeds up to 10 miles per hour. The Pride Wrangler PMV provides optimal power, superior performance, unmatched reliability and superb style. The Wrangler is the ultimate all terrain personal mobility vehicle.

BATT INFO 2@12v 100amp...MAX RNG 25 miles....down hill...:)
Airline approved quality batteries

Last edited Mon, 15 Nov 2010, 6:48pm by Eenigma

EEdreamer wrote:

I used to manage a senior apartment program and a few of the elderly had some kind of mobility scooter or wheelchair. As Tec said, they were usually powered by standard lead acid batteries. Modern powered wheelchairs and scooters aren't like they used to be. Some of these seniors would scoot off to the store or down the street to the doctor, some racking up a few miles per day. This use is very hard on the batteries--most are replaced at least once or twice a year. Higher capacity batteries that can be charged quickly would be ideal, but Lithium-ion and other current options are just too expensive, as most seniors rely on Medicare funding. Perfect EESU application here.

From my understanding of Zenn and LightEVs agreements, neither has rights to this market. Shall we approach DW and create Fanboyz Scooters Inc.?

Neither has rights is my best guess also but what is difference between a non road use golf cart and one of these electric scooters? LightEV has the 2 and 3 wheel market so are they in or out? If they are IN then that market is theirs and I'll buy stock if they ever IPO just because of that existing market. (but not until DW reveals)

Fanboyz Scooters Inc.......I like it. Sort of like the Pep Boys Manny Mo and Jack.

Sounds like a good question for Catherine.

Better ask her quick before she gets busy buying stuff for the office Holiday party.

I would think LightEV would have the market for All "Light weight" electric vehicles. This, In my Opinion, would include Motorcycles and ATVs. A 4-wheel Quad is considered a motorcycle and a ATV.

Going down in weight we know LightEVs has the Bicycles. so this would include scooters as well.

A Electric wheel chair is a vehicle by definition. and really a "scooter" in a unique configuration. I would guess LightEVs would have this market.

seslaprime wrote:

I would think LightEV would have the market for All "Light weight" electric vehicles. This, In my Opinion, would include Motorcycles and ATVs. A 4-wheel Quad is considered a motorcycle and a ATV.

Going down in weight we know LightEVs has the Bicycles. so this would include scooters as well.

A Electric wheel chair is a vehicle by definition. and really a "scooter" in a unique configuration. I would guess LightEVs would have this market.

LightEV's agreement seems clear from their press release:

2 and 3 wheeled market for electric bikes, scooters, motorcycles and 3 wheeled vehicles. (example: Aptera)

The only question is 4 wheeled golf cart like scooters. I think Y_No wants a hover round to chase chicks in.

Eenigma wrote:

seslaprime wrote:

I would think LightEV would have the market for All "Light weight" electric vehicles. This, In my Opinion, would include Motorcycles and ATVs. A 4-wheel Quad is considered a motorcycle and a ATV.

Going down in weight we know LightEVs has the Bicycles. so this would include scooters as well.

A Electric wheel chair is a vehicle by definition. and really a "scooter" in a unique configuration. I would guess LightEVs would have this market.

LightEV's agreement seems clear from their press release:

2 and 3 wheeled market for electric bikes, scooters, motorcycles and 3 wheeled vehicles. (example: Aptera)

The only question is 4 wheeled golf cart like scooters. I think Y_No wants a hover round to chase chicks in.

Ok I see. those kind of ride on the fence. is it a NEV or is it a Scooter?

So the 4-wheeled quad type ATVs are built on a motorcycle and Bicycle "tube" type chassis. The Golf Cart type are built on a "tub" type chassis. I would think this would belong to the NEV type class and Zenn would have that market.

I would suggest that Neighbourhood electric vehicles easily covers motorised wheelchairs and personal mobility vehicles that aren't otherwise licenced for general road use.

Shere Khaan wrote:

I would suggest that Neighbourhood electric vehicles easily covers motorised wheelchairs and personal mobility vehicles that aren't otherwise licenced for general road use.

I disagree. NEVs can be licensed to drive on public streets in some states, so long as they are driven only on streets and roads where the speed limit is below a certain, er, limit (between 25 MPH and 40 MPH, depending on the state). Contrariwise, mobility scooters, motorized wheelchairs, ATVs and the like can't be licensed to drive on any public streets, anywhere.

Furthermore, the former often or usually can carry two people, whereas the latter are strictly one-person vehicles.

OK fair point Lensman, NEV is a specific term in the US.

However, you should review this file you created...

http://69.12.216.159/files/ZMC_AGM_Slides.pdf

Zenn refer to specialty vehicles and include wheelchairs etc. Zenn believes it is permitted by EEstor and showed it at their AGM publicly, so presumably Eestor hasn't told them they can't.

Shere Khaan wrote:

OK fair point Lensman, NEV is a specific term in the US.

However, you should review this file you created...

http://69.12.216.159/files/ZMC_AGM_Slides.pdf

Zenn refer to specialty vehicles and include wheelchairs etc. Zenn believes it is permitted by EEstor and showed it at their AGM publicly, so presumably Eestor hasn't told them they can't.

Nice find SK

Looks like Y_No can cruise chicks in his Zennergy hover round while simultaneously helping his own stock cause. A true win win.

On a serious note I hope Patrick Kinsie is thinking out of the box and not limiting his sales calls strictly to the fledgling EV market.

Every deal that gets inked post reveal will ratchet my stock up a notch. This site's future look like this.

Who will Zenn ink next........and the muahahahahhah's will fly

how far can you go in a power chair with 52kwh EESU?

cechilders wrote:

how far can you go in a power chair with 52kwh EESU?

Cechilders you are near the top of the dumbest bastards ever to have logged in here. What kind of moron thinks a 52kWh EESU meets the application being discussed. Why would anyone put a 300 pound EESU in a hover round when a 12 pound 2kWh EESU would be head and shoulders above existing batteries in every conceivable category.

Like an amusement park that sets minimum height requirements your I.Q. doesn't measurement up for this ride. If I had banning power you would be history due to stupidity. You are a net drag on the intellectually challenged denier kook squad which isn't an easy accomplishment.

Thank god you are on team crackpot.

Eenigma wrote:

cechilders wrote:

how far can you go in a power chair with 52kwh EESU?

Cechilders you are near the top of the dumbest bastards ever to have logged in here. What kind of moron thinks a 52kWh EESU meets the application being discussed. Why would anyone put a 300 pound EESU in a hover round when a 12 pound 2kWh EESU would be head and shoulders above existing batteries in every conceivable category.

Like an amusement park that sets minimum height requirements your I.Q. doesn't measurement up for this ride. If I had banning power you would be history due to stupidity. You are a net drag on the intellectually challenged denier kook squad which isn't an easy accomplishment.

Thank god you are on team crackpot.

LMAO. That is hysterical, EEnigma. I particularly love this gem:

"You are a net drag on the intellectually challenged denier kook squad which isn't an easy accomplishment."
:D

Shere Khaan wrote:

OK fair point Lensman, NEV is a specific term in the US.

However, you should review this file you created...

http://69.12.216.159/files/ZMC_AGM_Slides.pdf

Zenn refer to specialty vehicles and include wheelchairs etc. Zenn believes it is permitted by EEstor and showed it at their AGM publicly, so presumably Eestor hasn't told them they can't.

Well spotted, sir!

I do indeed see the slide which includes "Specialty markets (LSV, golf cart, wheelchair, etc)".

I bow to your superior Google-fu.

But seriously... I *am* impressed with either your memory for EEStory minutia, or your diligence at researching the point, whichever applies here.

Eenigma wrote:

Cechilders you are near the top of the dumbest bastards ever to have logged in here. <snip> You are a net drag on the intellectually challenged denier kook squad which isn't an easy accomplishment.

Thank god you are on team crackpot.

And the odd thing is, I seem to recall once upon a time when I respected his opinion. Did he start taking stupid pills or something?

Or maybe he's just trolling-- just *pretending* to be that dumb, as an intellectual game.

Eddie wrote:

Eenigma wrote:

cechilders wrote:

how far can you go in a power chair with 52kwh EESU?

Cechilders you are near the top of the dumbest bastards ever to have logged in here. What kind of moron thinks a 52kWh EESU meets the application being discussed. Why would anyone put a 300 pound EESU in a hover round when a 12 pound 2kWh EESU would be head and shoulders above existing batteries in every conceivable category.

Like an amusement park that sets minimum height requirements your I.Q. doesn't measurement up for this ride. If I had banning power you would be history due to stupidity. You are a net drag on the intellectually challenged denier kook squad which isn't an easy accomplishment.

Thank god you are on team crackpot.

LMAO. That is hysterical, EEnigma. I particularly love this gem:

"You are a net drag on the intellectually challenged denier kook squad which isn't an easy accomplishment."
:D

(Y_Po, ee tom and Zawy aside)

If you take all the rest of the deniers on this site and stack them atop one another they can't reach the minimum I.Q. height requirement for this ride.

Their brains have to time share between breathing or a heart beat, multitasking is not an option. If they need to blink it causes a synapse overload (saturation) and their mentally fatigued grid goes down (breakdown).

No wonder they don't think breakdown and saturation can be overcome......case solved!

Eenigma wrote:

That's the beauty of this market, not even Tec can make an argument that diesel is the right way to go.

Lensman wrote:

But seriously... I *am* impressed with either your memory for EEStory minutia, or your diligence at researching the point, whichever applies here.

Thank you, it was my mmory. I remembered seeing it but only inspired to find it after I was shot down in flames to parachute to safety. :)