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Rossi Low Energy Nuclear Reaction confirmed? « Scientific Information « Technology
 
Thu, 16 Feb 2012, 10:40pm #3691
Lensman
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Starbuck wrote:

Defkalion's Board of Directors:

<snip>

They can't all be crazy, can they?

That's going to be fairly easy to determine. If they actually allow true third-party testing of their device, then indeed they are all crazy, or at least the majority of them. But if-- as I suspect-- they wind up making some excuse to cancel the tests, or limit the testers to non-meaningful tests, then we'll know they are just scammers; scammers who know perfectly well their device does not actually work.

That's not to say that being a scammer and being crazy is mutually exclusive, but I doubt there are significantly more crazy people among scammers than among the general populace.


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Fri, 17 Feb 2012, 9:02am #3692
demalo
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supamark wrote:

a hydrogen bomb puts out far more energy than is put into it to detonate (atom bomb is used as detonator). The extra energy comes from mass being converted directly into energy (because mass IS energy) during fusion. no energy was created or destroyed, just the form was changed. this is why "energy in/out" is not a good way to think of the 1st Law.

Wouldn't the best way to think of this is that you're getting out the energy that was put into creating the original mass?

I'm not familiar enough with the theories out there, but could it be that dark matter is present with the mass of particle/wave matter and that the release of energy coming from the fusion reaction is the result of removing that dark matter to allow the positrons to combine? Dark matter is currently undetectable correct?


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Arthur C. Clarke

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Fri, 17 Feb 2012, 11:20am #3693
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wiki article on fusion wrote:

The origin of the energy released in fusion of light elements is due to an interplay of two opposing forces, the nuclear force which draws together protons and neutrons, and the Coulomb force which causes protons to repel each other. Because the nuclear force is stronger than the Coulomb force for atomic nuclei smaller than iron and nickel, building up these nuclei from lighter nuclei by fusion releases the extra energy from the net attraction of these particles. For larger nuclei, however, no energy is released, since the nuclear force is short-range and cannot continue to act across still larger atomic nuclei. Thus, energy is no longer released when such nuclei are made by fusion (instead, energy is absorbed in such processes).

Fusion reactions of light elements power the stars and produce virtually all elements in a process called nucleosynthesis. The fusion of lighter elements in stars releases energy (and the mass that always accompanies it). For example, in the fusion of four hydrogen nuclei to form helium, seven-tenths of 1 percent of the mass is carried away from the system in the form of kinetic energy or other forms of energy (such as electromagnetic radiation).[2] However, the production of elements heavier than iron absorbs energy.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion

in a hydrogen bomb, an atom bomb (fission) is used to provide the energy to get the hydrogen (deuterium actually) and other crap (like lithium) to fuse... because it takes a LOT of energy to pretend to be a star.

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Fri, 17 Feb 2012, 1:22pm #3694
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Their board certainly is infested with the banker type. The worlds largest scammers have been proven over and over to be bankrsters! Normally they are hiding behind government approval or oversight. The FED is a good example of this. How many trillion's has Geitner already given to his buddys?

The nickle reserves in Greece are interesting. If you see the vultures sweep in and buy up all the nickle production then there could be something to that conspiracy. On the other hand could be just deals to good to pass up. Once Greece defaults there will be a big rush to buy up everything at pennies on the dollar.

Now back to Defka-lion. Demo's are great but I suspect the folks will be required to sign NDA's and not discuss the results.

I found this funny:

The company made this revelation in a post on its forum on Feb. 5, unfortunately the well known organizations were not identified.

Once the first customer publicly announces payments then it would be game on. I seriously have my doubts yet as do most on here but they are at least looking like they are attacking this with some better forces than Rossi has. He's an absolute joke.


Jim

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Sat, 18 Feb 2012, 10:47am #3695
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More info on Dick's negotiations with Defkalion

http://ecatnews.com/?p=2068


They're not building pet rocks in there.
eesu.farmeer@gmail.com

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Sun, 19 Feb 2012, 12:59am #3696
farmEEr
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uh oh

http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/02/18/natio...


They're not building pet rocks in there.
eesu.farmeer@gmail.com

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Sun, 19 Feb 2012, 1:13am #3697
Y_Po
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LOL, that's gonna slow Rossi-Train down a little.


Q: What would happen if you give 12V battery and two 6V light bulbs to Weir/Nelson?

A: They will wait 8 years for 12V➜6V DC-DC converter.

http://theeestory.com/topics/3687
http://theeestory.com/topics/2105
http://theeestory.com/topics/4835

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Sun, 19 Feb 2012, 7:33am #3698
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Another Krivit story. As a extreme Rossi critic, can we believe anything he says? I think we need to research Krivit's research to see if he is lying.

Looks like a total mess. Probably by design.

sure glad I am watching from the bleachers.

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Sun, 19 Feb 2012, 8:12am #3699
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seslaprime wrote:

Another Krivit story. As a extreme Rossi critic, can we believe anything he says?

Is there a rational reason to disbelieve anything Krivit says about Rossi and his ever-more-ridiculous claims?

It's beginning to look like Rossi is a compulsive liar. Why claim you have a business relationship with some company when it's so easy for someone to check to see if that's true? If I was in the same room with Rossi and he said it was raining outside, I'd look out a window to see if it was true.


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Sun, 19 Feb 2012, 11:03am #3700
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farmEEr wrote:

uh oh

http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/02/18/natio...

Ah poop. Come on Rossi, get your shit together. You can see why Defkalion split from him once they stole the basic ecat secrets. WAG.


The time has come to demonstrate that ZENN is on the right path Romney/Ryan 2012

Dick Weir will not go quietly in the night.... - FMA

My grandkids won't know what it means to put gas or diesel in a car.

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Sun, 19 Feb 2012, 11:18am #3701
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Rossi caught in another lie...shocking. From an ecat.news poster...

Think about all the people and organizations you have to declare “liars” in order to believe Rossi:
University of Bologna
University of Uppsala
NASA
National Instruments

Now, think about how little actual independent confirmation we have of Rossi’s claims:
No customers
No factory
No “NATO Colonel”
No independent tests
No “detailed isotopic analysis” as promised by Kullander

I was in the 'let's wait and see' camp but I think I've officially moved to the 'scam' camp.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but I doubt it.

Last edited Sun, 19 Feb 2012, 11:26am by Robw


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Sun, 19 Feb 2012, 12:05pm #3702
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I work with NI for work. If you have a big enough account, they will send SMEs out to look at your problems and discuss the limitations of their hardware and software and propose fixes. Maybe Rossi thought he was getting special treatment.
I get the sense that Rossi is not in charge anymore and that the grownups are putting things in order. I have little to no evidence to support this besides his talk about lawyers and the reports of the business being in the hands of investors.
I have had a feeling that Rossi had the engineering sense of a college freshman. They could do units and had a basic understanding of the physics, but almost no real world experience and often don't even know where to look for the answers.


They're not building pet rocks in there.
eesu.farmeer@gmail.com

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Sun, 19 Feb 2012, 2:58pm #3703
Taylor
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whiskeythief wrote:

For bloggers who can't read.

Rossi wrote:

“We decided together with the customer and National Instruments to make all the control systems and all the fixings of the gaskets in our factory in Bologna, instead of the customer’s place,”

National Instruments wrote:

"Leonardo Corporation has intentions to incorporate National Instruments tools in its control system."

Krivit wrote:

Several weeks ago, Rossi wrote that National Instruments was working with him on his 1MW E-Cat.
According to e-mails the author received from Betts, National Instruments is not working with Rossi.

Krivit is a liar. The emails actually confirm that Rossi was at least working with a sales support team from National Instruments. Krivit has been busted repeatedly on his crusade. The claims made by Rossi are not inconsistent with the claims made by National instruments within margin of translation error.

The headline does not fit the facts. It is just Krivit deception. If you can't understand what you read, you cannot form an intelligent opinion.

In my opinion I believe that Krivit is consistently wrong in his articles, but what exactly is Krivit's modus operandi? Could it be he thinks he what he is writing is correct?

Below is a link to site that states Krivit just can't read a graph. Is the explanation really that simple?

http://world.std.com/~mica/krivit02052012.html#... Update: February 7, 2012

Last edited Sun, 19 Feb 2012, 6:21pm by Taylor

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Sun, 19 Feb 2012, 4:12pm #3704
seslaprime
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Lensman wrote:

seslaprime wrote:

Another Krivit story. As a extreme Rossi critic, can we believe anything he says?

Is there a rational reason to disbelieve anything Krivit says about Rossi and his ever-more-ridiculous claims?

It's beginning to look like Rossi is a compulsive liar. Why claim you have a business relationship with some company when it's so easy for someone to check to see if that's true? If I was in the same room with Rossi and he said it was raining outside, I'd look out a window to see if it was true.

Well, I understand why you would believe Krivit. Looks like credibility has no boundary as long as the information plays into your scam theory.

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Sun, 19 Feb 2012, 4:15pm #3705
seslaprime
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Krivit is frustrated that Rossi will not give up anything to verifiy the E-cat. so much so that he will stop at nothing to smear Rossi.

But the smear campaign is looking like more of a farce than anything Rossi has said or done.

it is totally laughable.

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Sun, 19 Feb 2012, 8:55pm #3706
Taylor
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Questions to Rossi:

[from]Lu Fong
February 19th, 2012 at 2:15 PM
Dear Andrea Rossi,
I am watching the development of the E-Cat very carefully. Yesterday it was reported that National Instruments and Leonardo Corporation/Andrea Rossi or partners are no longer doing business together.
1. Is this true? If true will this development affect your manufacturing schedule of 12-18 months?
2. Does the E-Cat have a control system ready for commercialization and manufacture in your factory?
3. Is delivery of the 1MW E-Cat to your 1st customer still on schedule (less than 1 month from now)?
Thanks and good luck with your invention and work.
L.F.

Rossi's answer:

[from]Andrea Rossi
February 19th, 2012 at 2:52 PM
Dear Lu Fong:
I have received many comments with the same questions regarding National Instruments, so I answer to you and the answers are valid also for the other Readers who have put the same questions.
We have worked very well with N.I., and we have learnt from them very much. We are very grateful to them for all what they have teached to us, training our technological people in a very useful way, for weeks.
As I said already, Leonardo Corporation is structurally changed in these last weeks, and the Trust to which now Leonardo Corporation belongs has chosen other suppliers. Also our Customer has chosen other suppliers. We will remain always grateful to NI for what they teached to our people and we will ask in future proposals also to them . Personally, I am convinced that sooner or later we will buy also their systems.
Said this, I want answer in the detail to your questions:
1- Our scheduling, obviously, will not be affected, the suppliers we have chosen are already respecting all the scheduled milestones.
2- 3- Yes, we have already the control systems set up in the 1 MW plant, which will be delivered to the Customer very soon. By the way, such systems have been chosen directly from the Customer, who preferred a supplier he was already working with.
I want to add that we have chosen other Customers not because better, but only because of their longstanding collaboration with our Partners and Customer. I personally think that NI is a very good company and, again, we will maintain them in our list of Suppliers, honoured of this.
The 1 MW plant is a magnificence, and the preparation of the robotized line to produce the E-Cats is in schedule to start the production within Autumn and the deliveries within the next Winter, with some luck; in the worst case, within 18 months we will deliver, and we will deliver at the prices we promised. The technology has been revolutionized, we are testing the new E-Cats and we are very satisfied. This very week we will start to use the new control system made by the new Supplier.
Let me do a last consideration: the fact that snakes and clowns have used this episode to create a mess is the demonstration that we have not to release the names of our Partner, Suppliers and Customers, to avoid the falsifications that the puppet snakes and the clowns make up and, over all, the disturbments that they bring up to all the entities working with us. We all need to work in peace. We have to work in our factories 16 hours per day (also today, Sunday) and we have not time at all to compete in the field of the chatters of snakes who are PAID by their puppeteers to try to create a mess from nothing.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

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Sun, 19 Feb 2012, 9:06pm #3707
Taylor
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seslaprime wrote:

Krivit is frustrated that Rossi will not give up anything to verifiy the E-cat. so much so that he will stop at nothing to smear Rossi.

But the smear campaign is looking like more of a farce than anything Rossi has said or done.

it is totally laughable.

Seslaprime,

I think there is more to Krivit behaviour than just Rossi not sharing. Read these article devoted to Krivit.

http://world.std.com/~mica/krivit02052012.html#...

http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/articles/NE...

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Sun, 19 Feb 2012, 9:24pm #3708
seslaprime
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Thanks Taylor, That pretty much sums up the credibility of Steve Krivit. Looks like a deliberate but lackluster attempt at propaganda.

Sounds like a few skeptics on this blog.

A lot of talk but the guy obviously does not do his homework.

Last edited Sun, 19 Feb 2012, 9:33pm by seslaprime

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Sun, 19 Feb 2012, 9:46pm #3709
Y_Po
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LOL, have you looked in the mirror?
The guy misreads one graph and you go on him?

80 mWatt is extremely insignificant number.
and these 10x of input or 600 Watt/gram
are all dishonest attempts to make it look like something significant.

LENR gang consists of complete frauds like Rossi and assholes who like these people who use math to present clearly insignificant results as something significant.


Q: What would happen if you give 12V battery and two 6V light bulbs to Weir/Nelson?

A: They will wait 8 years for 12V➜6V DC-DC converter.

http://theeestory.com/topics/3687
http://theeestory.com/topics/2105
http://theeestory.com/topics/4835

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Mon, 20 Feb 2012, 12:18am #3710
seslaprime
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Y_Po wrote:

LOL, have you looked in the mirror?
The guy misreads one graph and you go on him?

80 mWatt is extremely insignificant number.
and these 10x of input or 600 Watt/gram
are all dishonest attempts to make it look like something significant.


LENR gang consists of complete frauds like Rossi and assholes who like these people who use math to present clearly insignificant results as something significant.

Looks like he more than misread one graph. Looks to me like everything he says is off.

Saying LENR crowd are all complete frauds is quite the assumption. do you even realize how many are doing LENR these days? most likely you think this "fraud" is confined to a limited class of people. in reality, it is literally infiltrating the highest science based educational institutions in the world. several tech colleges are actually teaching classes on LENR.

one thing is for sure, LENR is not going away any time soon.

You will have lots to complain about for a while.

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Mon, 20 Feb 2012, 12:21am #3711
Y_Po
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I did not say LENR crowd are ALL frauds.


Q: What would happen if you give 12V battery and two 6V light bulbs to Weir/Nelson?

A: They will wait 8 years for 12V➜6V DC-DC converter.

http://theeestory.com/topics/3687
http://theeestory.com/topics/2105
http://theeestory.com/topics/4835

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Mon, 20 Feb 2012, 9:19am #3712
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More from Defkalion and Dick Smith:

Below is a copy of our open announcement concerning Dick Smith, alsopublished on our website:



So far we have not officially received (through atelephone, letter, fax or e-mail) any such offer published in different sites.If the offer and the "donor" are real, we will accept the challenge,performing a test under the protocol we have announced in our last PressRelease (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=926&start=210).
In case this is a real proposal, we willaccept an official letter and a proof of donated funds from a prime bank beforeany such testing. Also note that our first independent official testsare starting on 24th of February 2012. No "donations" or any moneywhere required or offered for these independent tests.
DGT



Our online announcement was meant to initiate formal contact from Mr Smith.All subsequent communication was considered to remain private. Our aim hasnever been to gain publicity. Mr Smith apparently wants publicity (as witnessedby publishing our emails and getting others involved). First things first; MrSmith must first speak, discuss and agree with us. Publicity is later Mr Smith.



We declare that we do not have any spokes persons or representatives.All announcements, discussions and agreements are taken only by us.



Mr Smith’s first email to our CEO had no formal introduction, nor any professional courtesy:




On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 21:56:05 +1100, Dick Smith wrote:

Alex Dick smith here

My offer of $ 1 m for a successful demonstration of anLENR unit is confirmed subject to written agreement being signed.Please see the offer I made to Mr Rossi which is on ecat news site. My offer to you would be based on this. I only require a 6 hour testwith accurate measurements of the input and output power. Please advisethe input power you would like to test at and the COP you will be ableto demonstrate? I will not be able to do any paperwork until my officeis operating next Tuesday. When is the earliest you would like todo the test. ?

Rgds Dick Smith

Sent from my iPad



We requested for a Skype conference call with Mr Smith, similar to what he had requested from Mr Rossi. Mr Smith declined our offer. Strangely, when Mr Rossi declined Mr Smith, Mr Smith called Mr Rossi a scam. Should we considerthe same of Mr Smith?



We look forward to receiving from Mr Smith (1) an official letter of his offer; (2) proof of dedicated funds from a prime bank for 1 million; and (3) proof of entity (corporate or personal). Upon receipt of the above, we are ready,willing and able to proceed with the challenge.



Our protocol has been accepted by leading world authorities and we are undergoing tests under strict NDAs. Nonetheless, we are open to discuss variations such as a 6 hour test, still being able to prove a COP of over 20. But these are formalities to be discussed in private. Should we proceed, Mr Smith will be bound by NDA. He can receive all the publicity he wants after the test.



Post Script:

Mr Smith, we do not have a house to buy back; that was a nasty comment to Mr Andrea Rossi.

Scams calling scams, scams. WHEN WILL THE MADNESS STOP!!


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Mon, 20 Feb 2012, 10:42am #3713
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No courtesy among scammers - LOL

At least Defkalion has the sense to call Dick Smith's bluff.

Rossi played right into Smith's hands. How can Rossi ever hope to pull off his scam with that kind of performance?


All I want for Christmas is a Graphene / Ionic Liquid Electrical Generator.

PNeilson@NeilsonLabs.com

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Mon, 20 Feb 2012, 11:05am #3714
Taylor
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Prof Neilson wrote:

No courtesy among scammers - LOL

At least Defkalion has the sense to call Dick Smith's bluff.

Rossi played right into Smith's hands. How can Rossi ever hope to pull off his scam with that kind of performance?

.....so according to Rossi he has never contacted Dick Smith. Read this link below to see what Rossi wrote in all caps:
http://theeestory.com/posts/228434

PN last night in chat was stating there was a possible way for low level heat to occur via LENR. He stated that "plasmons could couple to phonons" and that phonons coupling to heat is a LENR missing link. Not sure about this -- this is over my head.

Why are so many folks so sure that Rossi didn't discovered a way to make LENR, or whatever it is, repeatably work? Afterall, it looks to me that Rossi was just building on the low level heat anomaly that Pannelli has been writing about for years. If you can believe Pannelli found a low level heat anomaly, than why is this such a stretch?

Rossi has given some hints on what he device he added to his E-cat reactor... in my opinion he said more than he should have. And certainly he gave Defkalion too much access.

Last edited Mon, 20 Feb 2012, 12:47pm by Taylor

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Mon, 20 Feb 2012, 12:06pm #3715
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Hmmm...I believe Prof Neilson was being sarcastically funny in that comment about "courtesy among scammers".

Not sure he was calling Rossi one.


The argumentative defense of any proposition is inversely proportional to the truth contained.

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Mon, 20 Feb 2012, 12:32pm #3716
Taylor
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Hal9000 wrote:

Hmmm...I believe Prof Neilson was being sarcastically funny in that comment about "courtesy among scammers".

Not sure he was calling Rossi one.

Really. Hmmm. Then I will go back and change my post a bit.

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Mon, 20 Feb 2012, 12:43pm #3717
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From Rossi's website:

Our aim hasnever been to gain publicity.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/Lensman03/Smileys/SmileyROTFL.gif

Someone really ought to start a "Top Ten Most Ridiculous Things Andrea Rossi Has Said" list!

Prof Neilson wrote:

How can Rossi ever hope to pull off his scam with that kind of performance?

Just look at the Believers defending him in this thread. Rossi seems to understand that so long as he dangles the "FREE ENERGY!!" carrot, his intended audience will swallow literally anything.


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Mon, 20 Feb 2012, 7:51pm #3718
seslaprime
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Taylor wrote:

Prof Neilson wrote:

No courtesy among scammers - LOL

At least Defkalion has the sense to call Dick Smith's bluff.

Rossi played right into Smith's hands. How can Rossi ever hope to pull off his scam with that kind of performance?

.....so according to Rossi he has never contacted Dick Smith. Read this link below to see what Rossi wrote in all caps:
http://theeestory.com/posts/228434

PN last night in chat was stating there was a possible way for low level heat to occur via LENR. He stated that "plasmons could couple to phonons" and that phonons coupling to heat is a LENR missing link. Not sure about this -- this is over my head.

Why are so many folks so sure that Rossi didn't discovered a way to make LENR, or whatever it is, repeatably work? Afterall, it looks to me that Rossi was just building on the low level heat anomaly that Pannelli has been writing about for years. If you can believe Pannelli found a low level heat anomaly, than why is this such a stretch?

Rossi has given some hints on what he device he added to his E-cat reactor... in my opinion he said more than he should have. And certainly he gave Defkalion too much access.

I agree Taylor, I have asked this question before. Piantelli's research remains untouched by skeptics. seems no one questions this.

But I am sure if Piantelli tried to make a commercial device, the heat would abound.

LENR is fine as long as it stays in the lab or classroom, heaven forbid it migrates into the market.

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Mon, 20 Feb 2012, 7:55pm #3719
seslaprime
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Prof Neilson wrote:

No courtesy among scammers - LOL

At least Defkalion has the sense to call Dick Smith's bluff.

Rossi played right into Smith's hands. How can Rossi ever hope to pull off his scam with that kind of performance?

Yeah, it seems odd to offer 1 million for a test, right in the middle of a Free, "Bring your own Test Equipment" Defkalion testing marathon.

it will be interesting to see how Dick weasels out of the million dollar test.

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Tue, 21 Feb 2012, 11:18am #3720
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Sounds like Dick Smith is a figment of someone's imagination or a made up person to try and uncover more details. Yeah I thought this guy had balls for offering $1M but now I can see that he is a fraud as well! Either that or someone who was acting as Mr. Smith is trying to discredit the whole show... Rather confusing. What is clear is Rossi's comments about devices possibly being ready in 18 months and his claim that Home Depot would be selling these by the end of 2012 are not in line. The Home Depot thing was laughable on it's own but now he is starting to forget the earlier lies.

I'm still clearly in the "Rossi is a Fraud" camp and nothing he has done recently has improved that image. The folks at Defka-lion are a bit more professional but these guys are just newer to the show. They still have not provided any real mechanical drawings or real engineering proof to anything they have claimed. A power point is not a technical drawing or specification! The only value add is they have a demo that looks more professional than Rossi. Anything stated above that is fluff and not proven if not third party validated and published.

Last edited Tue, 21 Feb 2012, 11:29am by jnissen


Jim

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