TheEEStory.com

News, Reviews and Discussion of EEStor Inc.
How many believers are remaining? « Partnerships « Financial
 
Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 9:46am #1
zawy
EExhilarating
Bende2
Registered: Aug, 2008
Last visit: Tue, 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 3286

How many people think there is at least a 10% chance that a prototype of the EESU exists? By "prototype" I mean something that can do at least 50% of what EEStor has been claiming since 2004. Please also state how long you've been reading this web site. And if you have any money invested in Zenn.

Thread rules: skeptics, please do not post. No arguing. I just want to see how many people believe in the reasonable possibility of a prototype existing.

Last edited Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 10:23am by zawy


"EEStor, Inc. remains on track to begin shipping production 15 kilowatt-hour Electrical Energy Storage Units (EESU) to ZENN Motor Company in 2007 for use in their electric vehicles." - EEStor, January 2007

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 9:57am #2
eestorblog
Administrator
Christmas
Registered: Aug, 2008
Last visit: Wed, 16 Apr 2014
Posts: 4570

I do. I've been reading the site since I launched it.
I am invested in Zenn.

I believe there is a 100% chance of a prototype.


------------------
www.nyumbani.org

http://theeestory.com/topics/1949

I believe in miracles and UFO's.

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 10:00am #3
Mite66
EErudite
Mite_biker
Registered: May, 2009
Last visit: Tue, 15 May 2012
Posts: 80

I'm still there.

My level of confidence (LS) is presently at 75%.

I've been reading this website since its very first day and do presently own 6000 shares of ZENN.


Lensman scale: 6
(slowly melting)

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 10:05am #4
DAP
EESUrient
Green_hawk
Registered: Apr, 2009
Last visit: Wed, 17 Apr 2013
Posts: 1764

I think there is at least a 95% chance that a prototype exists. I have been reading this site for two years and am invested in ZNNMF.


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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 10:08am #5
BKK
EExpert
Eestor
Registered: Aug, 2009
Last visit: Fri, 19 Apr 2013
Posts: 175

I believe

"""clap clap clap """

I believe also that these men (DW, CN)as far as I can see from their past accomplishments (whether Carl wants the Kudos or not) have led a life of integrity and as such I see no reason to disparage their character or call them liars or perhaps worse incompetent. In fact since both of these men have signed a statement that says they built and tested prototypes, saying you don't believe it exists is equivalent to calling them liars. You have no proof they lied you are just calling them liars because you can not figure out what they have done, open your mind to the possibility that there are forces and universal truths about nature that we as yet do not fully understand. I choose to live in a world where a man is assumed to be forthright and honest until it is PROVEN, not assumed, or stated by someone with no insight into the issue, that he is not so. I have been on theeestory since early '08. I am invested in ZENN.


"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." T. R.

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 10:13am #6
Zenner
EExpert
Othello
Registered: Jan, 2011
Last visit: Thu, 24 Oct 2013
Posts: 100

I have sold everything but Zenn.

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 10:14am #7
Tec
EExhilarating
New_tec
Registered: Mar, 2009
Last visit: Sun, 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 8307

My level of confidence is unchanged.

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 10:17am #8
DAP
EESUrient
Green_hawk
Registered: Apr, 2009
Last visit: Wed, 17 Apr 2013
Posts: 1764

BKK wrote:

You have no proof they lied you are just calling them liars because you can not figure out what they have done, open your mind to the possibility that there are forces and universal truths about nature that we as yet do not fully understand.

I believe it is fairly well understood.


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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 10:17am #9
DAP
EESUrient
Green_hawk
Registered: Apr, 2009
Last visit: Wed, 17 Apr 2013
Posts: 1764

Tec wrote:

My level of confidence is unchanged.

So by posting on this topic you believe there is at least a 10% chance?


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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 10:18am #10
ShortEE
EEcclesiastical
Mrschadenfreude2
Registered: Apr, 2009
Last visit: Fri, 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 1294

Tec wrote:

My level of confidence is unchanged.

zawy wrote:

Thread rules: skeptics, please do not post.

As is your comprehension level, evidently.

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 10:21am #11
redcapchew
EEager
Is
Registered: Jun, 2009
Last visit: Thu, 14 Feb 2013
Posts: 251

Zenner wrote:

I have sold everything but Zenn.

me 2.


"Now what they are proposing to do is wild. And there's lots of reasons in which some of these things could fail to be commercialized. I'm not saying whether it's worked or not and if we've announced it or not,"

Bill Joy - 2011

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 10:22am #12
zawy
EExhilarating
Bende2
Registered: Aug, 2008
Last visit: Tue, 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 3286

Let's not argue, I just want a simple thread to see who believes in the reasonable possibility of it existing.


"EEStor, Inc. remains on track to begin shipping production 15 kilowatt-hour Electrical Energy Storage Units (EESU) to ZENN Motor Company in 2007 for use in their electric vehicles." - EEStor, January 2007

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 10:24am #13
eehopeful
EExpert
Hope
Registered: Nov, 2008
Last visit: Mon, 27 Jan 2014
Posts: 182

I'm STILL hopeful this will change my life

if the S.S. Zennstor go's down...I go down with it...PERIOD


hope [hohp]
1. A wish or desire accompanied by confident expectation of its fulfillment.
2. Something that is hoped for or desired
3. One that is a source of or reason for hope

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 10:24am #14
Texas Bear
EEager
Beardancing
Registered: Aug, 2008
Last visit: Tue, 19 Aug 2014
Posts: 277

I'm a believer! I have been reading this site since the first day B launched it. Yup, I own shares, still holding not folding. Waiting!!!


Remember that a lone amateur
built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 10:48am #15
devotEE
EEndearing
Devo_duty_now
Registered: Oct, 2008
Last visit: 1 hour ago
Posts: 862

Pretty much here since the site started. I lurked for a couple of months while I read, fascinated by the discourse of the early technical discussions. Were they better then? I was a bit reluctant to post anything to a forum (even more or less anonymously). I own no Zenn stock. I am fascinated by the material science that is at play here. I believe what EEStor is trying to do may be possible. I believe that on any given topic, what we do know is much less than what we do not know. And that Black Swans occur (not the ballerina or the bird).


"We're living in a wiggly world."

"11% of any quantity = a shit ton"

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 11:10am #16
Thorny
EExpert
Art_windmill_003
Registered: Aug, 2008
Last visit: Mon, 27 Jan 2014
Posts: 128

I hate the word "believer". I have been skeptical from the beginning but still see the risk/reward ratio worthy of a moderate investment. Why has this blog degenerated to labels and name calling?


999 withering away

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 11:21am #17
All4Hoping
EExpert
Avatar
Registered: Oct, 2008
Last visit: Mon, 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 135

I still think it could happen. I have 1400 shares of ZENN. Not exactly the milk money, but I will hold them and wait. I am much more patient than I used to be, seemed like when they kept making press releases I was sort of fed up with the thing. But now that they have decided to shut up til they put up I think I respect that more. I would say I am 100% hopeful, but I think it is about 50%-50% whether they can pull it off or not. Seems like there must be some final hurdle that is causing all the delay.

EDIT - The month/year we registered is listed under our names, though I guess for people that changed their names it might be different.


Keep Hope Alive.

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 11:33am #18
broschultz
EEluminated
Registered: May, 2009
Last visit: Mon, 11 Feb 2013
Posts: 627

I believe it's at least 50% possible. I've been reading the site since May of 2009 but it seems much longer.

I own several thousand shares.

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 11:42am #19
wcushman
EESUrient
Cisne-negro2
Registered: Jul, 2009
Last visit: Thu, 10 Jan 2013
Posts: 2385

It is a definite maybe. I am 100% sure it will either happen or not happen or fall somewhere in between. Just like a lottery, it is a 100% sure thing that you will either win or lose. July 2009.


"All I want to know is where I will die so that I will never go there." Unknown wise man

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 11:43am #20
ONeil
EESUrient
Registered: Aug, 2008
Last visit: Thu, 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 2149

Believer is too strong a word. It implies a blind faith rather than a weighing of information and an estimation of the probability of success. As a 2 on the lens scale, I currently give the whole thing a 20% chance of success. I would guesstimate the chances of there being prototype components at 80% and a prototype EESU at 40%. I own stock and have spent what seems like a lifetime on this site (I started out on the BTblogspot before the creation of this site).


Just assume everything I say about EEStor includes the phrase "if it works".
... 7 on the Lens scale (up from a low of 1)

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 11:49am #21
zawy
EExhilarating
Bende2
Registered: Aug, 2008
Last visit: Tue, 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 3286

Thorny wrote:

I hate the word "believer". I have been skeptical from the beginning but still see the risk/reward ratio worthy of a moderate investment. Why has this blog degenerated to labels and name calling?
"Skeptic" means exactly that. You can call us deniers of claims until we see proof. I do not know what to call the opposite of that except believer. "Believe" means you can't observe or prove something, so I don't know why believers object to the term. They can't prove even the possibility of an EESU based on known physics and no one has reported seeing a prototype except in a patent. Patents are so full of it that wikipedia does not accept them as a reliable source. So I do not see a better term than "believer" and I can't remember anyone suggesting or at least agreeing on a different term. I guess the opposition to the term "believer" is based on a religious connotation. Believing what you can't see or prove does indeed mean a type of religious belief about something, but I would be happy if there was a term that meant the same without a religious connotation. It's certainly better than the "faithful" which is more appropriate for those who have stuck around these past 3 years that me and y_po have been around. Y_po was here and denying at last a few months before me. There was an MIT student and BT expert posting severe negativity in comments a year or two before that. So the skeptical deniers seem to stay around longer than the believers. The story seems to depend on a new and continuing influx of fools. I wonder if the ego boost of seeing idiots is what keeps skeptics around. That implies we skeptics are suffering from low self-esteem. :)

How many believers are still here and believing (other than B) from early 2008?

Last edited Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 11:59am by zawy


"EEStor, Inc. remains on track to begin shipping production 15 kilowatt-hour Electrical Energy Storage Units (EESU) to ZENN Motor Company in 2007 for use in their electric vehicles." - EEStor, January 2007

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 12:10pm #22
B_W_Rage
EErudite
Whaler
Registered: Aug, 2009
Last visit: Sat, 07 Jan 2012
Posts: 66

I do.

I have been told I am wrong so many times that I now start the conversation that I am probably wrong. However, only after you accept failure can you succeed. I keep hatching Black Swans since I dont fear to fail. I bet on Black Swans and believe in Black Swans. Eestor is the ultimate Black Swan.

You are either a Black Swan person or you are a follower. Black Swans are wrong 99% of the time but when they are right they change the world. DW is a Black Swan person lets hope he is right.

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 12:22pm #23
TecsFanEE
EESUrient
Registered: Sep, 2010
Last visit: Wed, 21 Mar 2012
Posts: 1989

I want to believe in EEStor and DW, but the sticking point for me is that this is really one guy trying to both design an earth shattering technology by himself as well as build a manufacturing facility more or less by himself.

Seems to me that if any company of any size at all sees value in what he is trying to do they could easily beat him there. They could use teams of researchers until they got it working, and then use a different team with different expertise to build a state of the art manufacturing process and facility.

From my point of view, what EEStor appears to be functioning as is more akin to a Professor at a college testing a theory. It seems to me that they are years away from any sort of large scale manufacturing, if they have anything that works at advertised to begin with.

How would you build any sort of large scale manufacturing in that small of a facility?

Still, I am open minded enough to say that maybe there is a 10% chance that DW has a working prototype and it does what he says it can do.

Oh, I forgot, I have been reading this site for like 2yrs. A year or so before I joined. I have no money invested in Zenn. I just cant seem to pull the trigger on investing in a company that invested in something that there is little proof that there is a working prototype. I am not saying he doesnt have one, but I find it odd that he wouldnt at least display it. I cant imagine that anyone is going to steal your idea by looking at what would amount to a box with some wires and testing equipment attached to it.


Fracking Beats Walking! - WCushman
The problem with the cost of healthcare is the cost of healthcare! - TecsFanee

Too much Tech not enough Tec.

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 12:48pm #24
davidg
EEager
Registered: Aug, 2008
Last visit: Fri, 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 315

Been here since late 2007. Lots of shares.
Expecting to buy more at lower prices.
I'm really curious about basher mentality.
Can't beat the risk / reward here.

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 12:51pm #25
loski
EErudite
Registered: Jun, 2009
Last visit: Sat, 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 81

I believe DW and EEstor are real. Still holding 100% of my ZNNMF investment. Its all or nothing. Let it ride! :)


Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged.....................Ronald Reagan

1 LouLou

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 12:53pm #26
TecsFanEE
EESUrient
Registered: Sep, 2010
Last visit: Wed, 21 Mar 2012
Posts: 1989

A couple of other thoughts.

Even if DW has what is claimed and he can manufacture it, I am not sure investing in Zenn is a great idea.

It seems to me that the military application of an EESU are immense and I could definitely see the government/military not wanting this to get in the hands of the public.

On the flipside of that, Lockheed Martin knows of this technology and I would think they would have some responsibility to report its existence back to the government if they thought it was workable. If that were the case, I would think we would see DARPA at least testing the theory behind it on a large scale. I guess they could be doing that in secret though. I would think that any kind of electric storage breakthrough at this level that had a working theory behind it would be worthy of Manhattan Project levels of funding. There should be some signs of that.

Mostly though, DW appears to suffer from some level of paranoia that keeps him from working outside a circle of very close friends and family. This would seem to hold him back from succeeding in the past and present. He seems to be a bit of a control freak. DW cannot possibly be an expert on everything. Nobody is.


Fracking Beats Walking! - WCushman
The problem with the cost of healthcare is the cost of healthcare! - TecsFanee

Too much Tech not enough Tec.

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 1:02pm #27
ricinro
EExhilarating
Rich-ricinro
Registered: Aug, 2008
Last visit: Sun, 21 Apr 2013
Posts: 3302

I trust in the competence, integrity, honor of DW as many other people have. My money has supported what appears to be a somewhat drawn-out product development of a scaled production line to assemble EESU modules in extrapolated configurations. Validation of EEStor production lines lines plus EESUs themselves are almost sufficient (needs history) to be useful to EV manufacturers and their supply chain requirements. Engineers know what engineers need.


Thanks BTV for the blog

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 1:03pm #28
Abelah
EErudite
Registered: Oct, 2008
Last visit: Thu, 14 Feb 2013
Posts: 52

I have been following this before there was a "this". I am with BKK..........

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 1:14pm #29
CapMan
EESUrient
Registered: Aug, 2008
Last visit: Thu, 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1447

TecFan wrote:

A couple of other thoughts.

Even if DW has what is claimed and he can manufacture it, I am not sure investing in Zenn is a great idea.

It seems to me that the military application of an EESU are immense and I could definitely see the government/military not wanting this to get in the hands of the public.

On the flipside of that, Lockheed Martin knows of this technology and I would think they would have some responsibility to report its existence back to the government if they thought it was workable. If that were the case, I would think we would see DARPA at least testing the theory behind it on a large scale. I guess they could be doing that in secret though. I would think that any kind of electric storage breakthrough at this level that had a working theory behind it would be worthy of Manhattan Project levels of funding. There should be some signs of that.

Mostly though, DW appears to suffer from some level of paranoia that keeps him from working outside a circle of very close friends and family. This would seem to hold him back from succeeding in the past and present. He seems to be a bit of a control freak. DW cannot possibly be an expert on everything. Nobody is.

I think it's worthwhile repeating that before a patent is published, if it may affect national security in any way, it is passed on to each department, anyone of which can squelch the process and label it secret.

I am of the opinion that the original EESU went this route, and was not determined to be a threat. However, it may be that LM was told to keep an eye on it, which would account for their involvement. Course, it may also be te AFRL was told to play that role.

Don't know, just speculating. (Unusual for this site, I know)

I have been here since 2008, I think, and my confidence has varied up and down between 0.01 and 5%

Last edited Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 1:21pm by CapMan


CapMan
email: ---

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Thu, 14 Apr 2011, 1:18pm #30
Innishfad
EEluminated
Registered: Jan, 2009
Last visit: Wed, 28 Mar 2012
Posts: 583

Been watching and posting here since January 13, 2009. I Own 15,000 shares of Zenn as a speculative investment. Planning to wait (impatiently) until either AHBL or Zenn throws in the towel. I am not academically qualified to be either a believer or a skeptic. I am a fan/speculator. I hope that the confidence expressed by many here is well founded, but I won't know until I know. Having said all that, Go Dick!

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