TheEEStory.com

I'm at about 80-85% faith. I have about 25K shares. I've been reading the site off and on for around three years.

One more thing. Why did DW set the price significantly lower than lithium batteries? There would be no need to even if it just had unlimited recharges and equal ED it would be a huge improvement. Let alone higher ED and unlimited recharges, that would mean you should price it higher or if you are a saint equal. With ground breaking tech you never price it lower than its lesser competitors at first. You dont base price on manufacturing costs, you base it on value compared to what else is on the market for as long as you can.

Something about that really bothers my gut. Should it?

TecFan wrote:

One more thing. Why did DW set the price significantly lower than lithium batteries? There would be no need to even if it just had unlimited recharges and equal ED it would be a huge improvement. Let alone higher ED and unlimited recharges, that would mean you should price it higher or if you are a saint equal. With ground breaking tech you never price it lower than its lesser competitors at first. You dont base price on manufacturing costs, you base it on value compared to what else is on the market for as long as you can.

Something about that really bothers my gut. Should it?

he is not a retailer.

I don't know what EEstor has or doesn't have, nor whether or not Zenn will be able to make money in the end.

I certainly hope they will come out on top, and will have 1000X the share price in my pocket if and when they do.

I am not, however, willing to stick up for the players involved out of admiration, faith, or what have you.

Label that how you like.

I dont think there was much reality to that estimate...it was a hoped for target to be in line with what the ZENN car at the time needed. My guess is that the direct costs will be 10k.

Before saying you've been here more than 3 years (I see 3 believers so far), please remember this web site started in August 2008, so you have to remember the switch over from the original blog.

Let it ride...

If I lose a chunk of cash... Oh well, whatcha gonna do?
I am however encouraged by the fact that Ian bought more shares.

YYY

CapacitorMan wrote:

I dont think there was much reality to that estimate...it was a hoped for target to be in line with what the ZENN car at the time needed. My guess is that the direct costs will be 10k.

I could be wrong, probably am, but I thought it was part of the contract with Zenn to have a preset price. Is that incorrect?

ricinro wrote:

TecFan wrote:

One more thing. Why did DW set the price significantly lower than lithium batteries? There would be no need to even if it just had unlimited recharges and equal ED it would be a huge improvement. Let alone higher ED and unlimited recharges, that would mean you should price it higher or if you are a saint equal. With ground breaking tech you never price it lower than its lesser competitors at first. You dont base price on manufacturing costs, you base it on value compared to what else is on the market for as long as you can.

Something about that really bothers my gut. Should it?

he is not a retailer.

Yeah but he estimated it at a price that is less than even the wholesale price of lithium batteries.

Plus, what is to keep him from becoming a retailer in markets outside of what he has contracted to Lockheed or Zenn or any other company?

I mean retailing this thing himself whereever he can seems like a no brainer. This thing, if works as advertised, would sell itself.

Yeah, they have it. DW said in the beginning Prototypes were built and tested. you have to think DW is out and out lier to think there is not now nor ever was any prototype.

Science is not well enough understood to be skeptic over science. DW and CN are too knowlegable and respected in this field to think they dont understand their own invention or that they would be involved in group lying.

I suspect that EEStor will be making its money on production lines. The EESU will be a commodity. He benefits more from volume.

ricinro wrote:

I suspect that EEStor will be making its money on production lines. The EESU will be a commodity. He benefits more from volume.

Which is a very good point.

But one thing that troubles me, is that model only workd if you can scale. In our wet chemistry, we'd go from liter flasks, to 500 liter tanks, to continuous pipeline reactors.

But DW seems to insist on having replicatable modules. How does that provide volume price reduction?

ricinro wrote:

I suspect that EEStor will be making its money on production lines. The EESU will be a commodity. He benefits more from volume.

That doesnt make sense to me. If anything he would benefit from outsourcing production and then selling the end product.

Do you see battery manufacturers setting up production lines in GM or Ford? Why not? Because it doesnt make sense. It is better to have one production facility running close to full capacity than it is to have production facilities spread out at the different car plants.

It wouldnt become a commodity until other companies could produce an equivalent product at a lower price. When you have a technology that outpaces ever other competitor by at least a factor of two there is no reason to treat it as a commodity.

Can you give any example in history where a ground breaking technology that is patent protected gets priced/treated as a commodity?

You bring up good points for a new topic tecfan. I do think the volt has a dedicated battery manufacture plant.

this topic was a faith -testimony revival

Yes, I believe there is a working prototype. It is fun to see you freakin' geniuses duke it out even if I don't understand the science.
Yes, I am invested and would buy more if I could.
Been following since early 2008 when my boss happened to come across an article about EEStor and told me about it. Will owe him a finder's fee on reveal day!
Can't help myself...I feel drawn to drive by the EEStor facility when I am back home. Go, DW. Go!

My understanding is that GM is assembling battery packs for the Volt onsite. They actually get the cells from LG and then put the battery pack together. I dont think they are producing the lithium cells onsite.

One reason they wouldnt produce lithium cells on site is because they dont want to be married to a particular cell. They want to be able to switch to better energy storage cells as they become available.

Article wrote:

GMs main point of the conference was reiterate that they are doing the pack design, engineering, and software controls in-house. So while LG or someone else may make an excellent cell, GM intends to make the best pack and become the worlds best electric car battery make maker. This gives them competitive advantage over car companies that are “married” to a specific cell supplier. Gray is convinced batteries will continue to advance in the future and right now GM is testing cells from “more than a dozen suppliers.”

http://gm-volt.com/2009/03/19/gm-volt-battery-u...

Granted this article is a year old and I found it a bit confusing, but it seems to say they are producing battery packs as oppposed to the actual cells.

kimEE,

Will we all someday stand before the silver gates of EESUs creator and bow down on a sunday? (workdays are out if they got security)

B_W_Rage wrote:

I do.

I have been told I am wrong so many times that I now start the conversation that I am probably wrong. However, only after you accept failure can you succeed. I keep hatching Black Swans since I dont fear to fail. I bet on Black Swans and believe in Black Swans. Eestor is the ultimate Black Swan.

You are either a Black Swan person or you are a follower. Black Swans are wrong 99% of the time but when they are right they change the world. DW is a Black Swan person lets hope he is right.

Right on !!!

I believe they have what they have claim to have. I'm less confident that they will figure out a way to mass produce it and have a customer selling their product before some other technology makes their product obsolete. And yes, I'm still here reading, although I don't post near as much as I used to. I simply don't care to get into petty arguments with agenda driven haters.

zawy wrote:

How many people think there is at least a 10% chance that a prototype of the EESU exists?

You use the present tense on this question, which really should have two choices

HAD a prototype- 99.5% certain
HAVE a prototype- 20-50% certain
I do not own any stock in ZENN
I have been a member since Sept '09, but have lurked here and at the previous blog since B started them.

Innishfad: I like the description speculator. It fits a large number of the people posting on this thread. A new party is born ... the speculators.

CapMan wrote:

My guess is that the direct costs will be 10k.

If you are correct then that works out to a production cost of approximately $90/kg. ($10,000/110kg of components per 52kwh EESU) In order for EEStor to be able to sell EESUs at $100/kwh, they will require an energy density of about 1.5kwh/kg, or 4X of the ED shown in the EESU patent. It will be interesting to see what ED the EESU actually has (assuming it exists)

I still think it's quite possible. I have no investment in Zenn.

zawy wrote:

Before saying you've been here more than 3 years (I see 3 believers so far), please remember this web site started in August 2008, so you have to remember the switch over from the original blog.

I've been here a while Zawy, as have you. Since the days of bariumtitanate.blogspot.com.

I'm pretty sure EEStor has built that prototype. I say DW is no liar, whatever his other faults may be.

Successful commercialisation of this device is another issue entirely, and of that I remain less certain. But I am hopeful enough to hang in there.

I understand why you have your views, and enjoy reading your thoughts on many other subjects. On EEStor it looks like my intuition and reading of events is telling me a different story to yours. That's all. It's no big deal.

Time will tell – hopefully, as I will admit to being a bit bored of waiting.

ricinro wrote:

kimEE,

Will we all someday stand before the silver gates of EESUs creator and bow down on a sunday? (workdays are out if they got security)

Maybe not so much silver but all the aluminum they will have purchased in speculation, along with the barite mines.

; )

I'm so depressed! I mean, how many times do I have to sell all my shares of Zenn to convince you...

I'm still IN.

I don't doubt the technology, but I am worried about the challenges of mass production and bringing it to market.

It's a gamble and a risk. I don't suggest people buy Zenn with anything more then what they are willing to lose. That being said the rewards for getting in on the ground floor of this thing could be huge.

I have been here since 2009, I own Zenn shares. I think it is very likely that prototypes exist (>90%). I have put my time in on the science, and although my expertise is in a very different field, I have personally experienced the process of scientific discovery and seen it profoundly change how we see a particular part of the world. The fact that these things happen less often in engineering and physics than in other fields doesn't mean that they can't happen. I think the prepoderance of the available evidence (such as it is), indicates that EEStor has what they say they have. Producing it in bulk for $100/kWh is another matter, I don't think that question can currently be answered based on the information we have.

It's amazing how believers proclaim 80-90% likelihood of EESU when according to B himself odds given by people involved with institutional investor are 1 in 50 against EEStor.

Po, you really think you can put a number to it? Like "institutional Investors are 1 in 50 against Eestor"?

That's the stupidest thing I've heard, in a while. Like, you can trust institutional investors, to come up with a number like that? Like they know the answer to that? Fluck, you are stupid.

People that work at banks, Institutional Investors, can tell you that, for high risk ventures of this sort, about 49 fail, for every 1 that succeeds. That's obviously your thinking. Do you really think that proves anything? These institutional investors cannot tell WHICH of the 50 will fail or succeed, only that 49 will not work. So, in other words, they know NOTHING about what makes any one of these work, or fail.

So, you rely on these twits, and their half-assed reasoning, to piggy back on their idiocy, and come up with your own half-assed reasoning?

Think, man, think.

Fruck, you are a twit.

Go back to whatever university you went to, and demand your money back. They did a bad job, teaching you to think.